M4wd&Fabrications
Projects place => Projects Section => Topic started by: jaysenodell on September 11, 2013, 05:48:49 PM
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Mrs has suggested that I should start planning Mid Life Crisis' path to Rausch reds and Big Dawg's in Va. The goal is a capable vehicle to use as a DD but still give Wingman a competitor for "wheeling open". Right now the only real work that has been done is a 3" lift (previous owner). And a radio. I'm wheeling with 33s (15" solid aluminum or D hole steel (cragars I think) wheels). Everything else is pretty much stock.
My thought is that I should start with gears and lockers. But then again, some decent skid plates would be a good idea. There's also the tie rod (planning move to stock ZJ). I don't think any more lift is needed. I figure axles and U to CV are later. There's always body work but I figured I'd replace pieces as they fall off. Things I know nothing about, especially priority, are bumpers, winches, lights.
So where to start?
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aussie lockers,solid diff covers, m4 rock rails + skid plates, go wheeling
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What luvmyxj said
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 4
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Sell it and buy a 4.0 six cylinder... :P The 2.5 is just woefully inadequate.
... or buy someone else's built wheeler. There are some deals to be had!
If that doesn't sound feasible, then...
aussie lockers,solid diff covers, m4 rock rails + skid plates, go wheeling
... is a solid start. But gears should also be a priority with the 4 cyl.
I always say "develop a build plan and stick to it". I think the most important part is not to get in too deep that you can't wheel often because you're in the middle of working on it. You'll get side-tracked and do silly things...
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4 banger is gonna be painful.
4.56 is as deep as you'll want to go in stock axles. The 30 will strip 4.88s.
Rear is a 44, right? 35 is no good.
4:1 case is an option for off-road.
Tapatalking in traffic
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Should be a 44 (starting to rain so not crawling under it right now.
MLC (lets not start calling it version 1 yet) needs to be primarily a DD. I figure if I really want to go "all in" I will buy something that needs trailered. I did find a few 4.0 that needed bodies but then I'd be in the same place I am now. For now I need to make it work with the 2.5. That said, I'm not sure where the 2.5 would fail at Rausch outside of things like the Moon. I'm not sure I'd even think about that for a while.
No one mentioned the ZJ tie rod swap. Should the wait till later?
Also wondering if I should do gears and lockers at the same time. Since the diff will be out already (and I won't be doing the gears) is would seem to me that the logic move would be to do them together. I like the idea of Aussie, especially on the front for DD, but what about in the rear? If manual locker (I would think electronic), can you mix Aussie and manuals?
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A zj tie rod is prob the last thing I would be worried about...
Wing is right..
Sell and buy a 6 cyl
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Lack of torque doesn't let you be as smooth. You really have to gear the wee out of a low HP motor to crawl smoothly.
Tapatalking in traffic
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An old timer once told me.....
Every mod you do to your jeep will help you get into deeper trouble (harder trails, places you shouldn't be, etc....).
A winch is one of the only things you can add to help you get out of these situations.
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A zj tie rod is prob the last thing I would be worried about...
I disagree, someone bends one every time we wheel, and its a lengthy trail fix, do it!
Gears gears gears, riding your clutch and stalling out is no fun
Suspension seats and harnesses. may sound like jumping the gun but it is so much more comfortable not being tossed around like a rag doll. especially if you have back problems. its made my weekend twice as enjoyable
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Start here (http://www.rc4x4.org/rcforum/index.php?topic=20546.0)... ;D
or
something like this (http://www.rc4x4.org/rcforum/index.php?topic=20158.0)... :-\
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this one is not that bad either... and alot cheaper
http://www.rc4x4.org/rcforum/index.php?topic=20152.0
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A zj tie rod is prob the last thing I would be worried about...
I disagree, someone bends one every time we wheel, and its a lengthy trail fix, do it!
for what it takes to do a ZJ TRE swap you might as well go bigger and bidder..
I have been nothing but thrilled with my JCR OTK steering.. was damn cheap, and have great road manners..
FWIW the ZJ TRE deal is lipstick on a pig..
the biggest thing I have learned building trucks that stay in STOCK form is the most bang for your buck is buying the correct platform..
any FI I6 Jeep is a great start...
that start from the ground up.. Axles are the number 1 thing to address.. you get those figured out right and you will never be disappointed..
took me 2 jeeps, 1 D35's and a broken D30 stock shaft to figure this all out..
this is all at a time when I was building on a budget and these jeeps were my DD..
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i'm not a jeep guy idk jeep parts, but do something with that tie rod :D
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Is selling this Jeep and ponying up the extra cash for a 4.0L TJ possible given financial considerations? A year or so ago, they were going for a solid $2k more than similarly equipped 2.5L Jeep.
How much time and money do you want to invest in this, long term? (sort of a rhetorical question.)
If selling this Jeep to spend more money on another isn't an option and you're looking for minimal investment to get out into some harder terrain, I think luvmyxj's advice is spot on. You will want gears too. ZJ steering is cheap and easy, and prevents an annoying trail fix. Stock gas tank skid is useless, get a real one.
If you have a D35 rear (which I'm pretty sure 2.5Ls universally came with)... that sucks. Mike Wolf, Gari, and others make them work, but I personally won't advise spending a dime on that axle. Ford 8.8 is a great swap, but relatively expensive on a Jeep with a 4 link rear.
If you can swing the extra cash to upgrade to a 4.0L TJ, that is a decision you will unlikely regret. It will also be a much better platform for a long term and more involved "project build."
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Not that resale is ever considered when building a project, but a 4.0 will always get top dollar over a 2.5.
Another reason why the Rubicons demand more $$ = D44s front and rear, selectable lockers front and rear, 4:1 t-case, 4 wheel disc brakes all already present. This stuff adds up fast when upgrading.
So many considerations! Bwahahahaha... ;D
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gee.. I hope we have not crushed your dream to much... not that we are trying to scare you.
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buddy of mine parting out his TJ in CT.... clean as you can get for parts..
I've started disassembling the TJ and the Tag Sale is now open. For now, I'm holding onto the front axle, steering linkage, engine (checking to see how hard it would be to upgrade the MJ), and the transfer case. Everything else is up for grabs. If you need photos, let me know and I'll send them to you.
Poison Spyder Trail Cage (SOLD)
- Poison Spyder Rocker Knocker Rock Sliders $250
- Poison Spyder Crusher Corners $350
- Warn Front Rock Krawler Bumper with Custom Adjustable and Removable Stinger with winch plate $350
- Warn Rear Rock Krawler Bumper with Tire Carrier and Frame Tie-ins (SOLD)
- Warn Steering Box Skid $35
- Clayton Cross Member/Belly-up Skid/Engine Skid $300
- Clayton 5.5†Log-Arm Lift $1500
- Tomkin Fuel Tank Skid Plate (SOLD)
- Ford 8.8 Rear Axle with Ected Locker and 4.56 Gears and HD Diff Cover (Trussed and configured for Clayton LA lift) $1000
- OnBoard Air system: York Compressor/Mount Plate/Air Tank/Pressure Switch $300
- Blue Torch Fab Flat Fenders with Custom Flares and Fender Wells $350
- JKS Swaybar disconnects $75
- Warn i8000 winch $300
- Tuffy center console security box $125
- Bestop soft top with frame and quick disconnects for easy frame removal $200
- Bestop 1/2 cab top with tonneau $75
- Hard 1/2 door uppers with sliding glass $250
Of course there is all kinds of stock TJ stuff available, hood, tub, seats, 1/2 doors, windshield, etc...
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shipping isnt a problem as long as you are in no hurry...
my Jeep is going down to CT eventually...
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Is that as much of a steal on the Warn as I think it is?
Hmm, there's an m8000 that's about a $575 winch with steel cable. Not sure what an i8000 is.
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Prob still time to buy the truck complete.. Jim doesnt work very fast...
It's time to let someone else enjoy this TJ. I've been building a MJ and don't want to support two wheeling rigs so the TJ has to go. I'll try selling it intact for a couple weeks and if nothing happens, I'll start parting it out. Basically the only thing I'd keep would be the front axle and perhaps the rear. It does need a little TLC to make it perfect again but it is functional as it is.
The photo below is from CoolRide last week. Asking $11,500 as shown less the dirt or $10K without the wheels/tires (Wheels/tires are new and I wish to put them on the MJ)
(http://home.comcast.net/~jksteele/jonfund/TJBuild/97TJ-4Sale.jpg)
Here is a link to the build to see all of the details as to what mods were performed
http://www.jonfund.org/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=6665&Number=68346#Post68346
Some Details:
4.0L/Manual trans
Rocktrack Transfer case from TJ Rubicon 4:1 gears (much stronger than stock 231)
Front Axle: Trussed HP D30 with Alloy USA shafts and Arb air locker, 4.56 gear ratio
Rear Axle: Ford 8.8 with Ected electric locker, Disk Brakes, 4.56 gears
TrXus 35x12.50x15 in steelies with welded on rim stiffeners
Clayton 5.5" Long Arm Lift (Installed by Bob Swinski)
Clayton Belly-up cross member and main skid plate
Clayton Engine Skid
HD Fuel Tank Skid
Steering Box Skid
JKS Swaybar disconnects
Currie HD steering linkage (Custom Gussett at weak point)
Front/Rear WARN Rock Krawler Bumpers with Tire Carrier and rear frame tie-ins
Custom Front Stinger (Adjustable and removable)
Poison Spyder Rock Sliders
Poison Spyder Rear Corner Crushers with flares
Poison Spyder Trai Cage with rear cross bar and custom Clayton risers
Blue Torch Fab flat fenders with custom flares and modified fender wells to keep mud away from engine
Battery relocated to rear with quick disconnect switch in cab
1.25" Body Lift
M.O.R.E Engine lift
On-Board Air: York Compressor with custom mount plate and air tank/pressure switch
Warn i8000 winch
Tuffy center console security box
Bestop soft top with quick disconnects for frame
Bestop 1/2 cab top with tonneau (not shown)
Hard 1/2 door uppers with sliding glass
CB and antenna
There is probably stuff I'm forgetting but I think I have most of it.
Post here, PM, or call my cell (203) six-7-six 7-four-3-eight, if interested. Its located near Middletown CT
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If Arie can't for some reason, I could also deliver for a reasonable cost if needed. I live 20min from and work in Middletown.
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Not crushed. Yet. Not really a dream, just having a good time.
The 2.5 was a "bang for the buck" thing. The $2.5K that an older i6 in similar shape (it was actually a 94) cost was out of range at the time. When we bought this one the intent was to sell all the current spares and just use it for DD. The 101 pretty much killed that. The June trip to Rausch buried it 6' under.
Now, the wife doesn't know about this forum so I can show my hand here and you can all call me nuts.
I'd like to get the TJ to a point where I can go to Rausch and Big Dawgs (I think that's VA, right) and enjoy some fun without worrying that I'll make it back. I expect to make a few trips a year with more time at places like Whispering Pines than Rausch. If we (Mrs says she likes Rausch) then I expect to purchase MLC 2 to be a dedicated off road vehicle. Not sure I'd go buggy, but certainly something capable of getting me way in over my head (and back out again).
So things like gears to run the 33s full time, skid plates, inexpensive upgrades (like ZJ tie rod) are in line. Things like seats are good as they can be swapped later (thinking Cabera(sp)). Not to sure a t-case would fit but then again, if I do another TJ I could swap it. Full axle swaps (d30 to d40) would get me shot, but I could probably replace the live shafts (not sure what you call them in the auto world) for chromoly as a "insurance" measure.
To answer a direct question on cost: How should I spend the first $2000. Exclude tires and other "consumables". This is just on parts upgrades.
My ordered list for the first $2k was
1. ZJ tie rod
2. Gears (4.52 as I have been convinced that 4.88 is bad for 30/35)
3. Front locker.
I wasn't able to figure out the second $2k and started to question my first $2k.
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Just saw the parts list... Dang. I wasn't thinking of staring until winter but at those prices.... I could get the whole rear axle and only need to gear the front. Heck, I can replace my dead soft top for half what I was thinking.
I simultaneously like and dislike you Arie.
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My ordered list for the first $2k was
1. ZJ tie rod
2. Gears (4.52 as I have been convinced that 4.88 is bad for 30/35)
3. Front locker.
I wasn't able to figure out the second $2k and started to question my first $2k.
take the 2K and buy a set of used, geard and locked axles...
or do the rear first and front later..
dont dump money into the D35.. or D30 for that measure unless your looking to spend the money on RCVs and an ARB..
just my 2 cents..
and i dont know whay I have a hard on for the ZJ thing.. I just think its a waste in the long run..
check this out..
http://www.jcroffroad.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=STR
on a retail level QUALITY parts for the ZJ swap is the same money.. and your killing 2 birds with one stone.
other companys make a simmilar setup as well.
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The BEST consumer is and EDUCATED consumer..
dont buy because you think... buy because you KNOW!
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If you lock the front, expect to break shafts. Have some spares or upgrade now.
And the ZJ upgrade is 1000x stronger than stock and "off the shelf" parts. Not bad for just over $100. But, it subtracts some clearance.
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take the 2K and buy a set of used, geard and locked axles...
This is by far the best option. Just may require some patience.
ZJ steering only requires upgrading the tie rod, not the entire assembly. $100 and done as Mark said. If you're whole steering setup has seen better days... JCR may be the best bet.
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Ford 8.8 with 4.56 gears and a Dana 30 to match. If you are worried about strength in the 30 just leave it open and lock the rear axle. I myself hated just a rear locker when I had my Jeep setup like that for a year or so. I am all for a locked Dana 30 up to 35" tires as long as you have spare shafts and can learn what situations will really stress the shafts and avoid them. As for steering I run the Currie steering and absolutely love it. It has held up without one problem for many many years. The v8 zj tie rod is a good investment for the price and will take some abuse.
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I really second what Nick said. I think its a good way to learn to wheel instead of HAMMER DOWN the GO Pedal . I made the switch to the zj tie rod due to bending the stock one.
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I have aussies front and rear and have only broke one shaft, maybe due to the 3.07 gears or just careful driving but it works
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a slush box really helps the 30 also, the 5 speed is not so nice
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Well, I went to WP to have some fun since Rausch was out. Had a little more fun than I realized. New bruise in the rear driver corner (about 2" deep crunch and missing paint). I may also be in NEED of a new tie rod. How straight is it supposed to be? I have about a 3/4" upward bow with the high point about 6" to the left of the diff (pass side; big rust spot in the attached pic). Still drives straight and turns fine. It doesn't show the bend well in the photos, but it is there.
Mike, can you explain the "slush box" and the problem with the 5?
[attachment deleted by admin]
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if it still drives straight your ok.....
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Nice thing about tj steering is that if you bend it enough to matter your steering wheel won't be centered anymore.
Slushbox == automatic trans. Much gentler than a 5sp (stick) thanks to constant slippage.
Tapatalking in traffic
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Anyone have a secret to getting tree bark off the paint without removing the paint? I got in an argument with a tree and want to keep as much of the pain as I can.
After the fun at WP and spending a little time attempting to think, I'm still thinking that I need to focus on "get home" over "get on top". That means I need to focus on mitigating breakage. Considering that I have a slightly frowning tierod already, I think this needs to be my first priority.
Everyone seems concerned with the d30/35 axles. New is out of the question (buying a new jeep would be cheaper). I looked around and while I can find ford 8.8, d40/44/60, and a wad of Chevy axles I'm not sure what I'm looking at. But I did find a number of incomplete or "needs body" projects (cj5, cj, and tj) that had axle and other miscellaneous upgrades. None of them were roadworthy, but is there any reason I couldn't use them for parts? What should I be looking at when considering axles and part vehicles?
That out of the way, is the problem with the d30/35 just robustness? I've been told that a 4.88 gear is out due to how whimpy the d30/35 4.88 gear sets are. I feel that I either got lucky driving away from Rausch last time or conservative driving with spare shafts is all I need. I do understand that lockers change torque/force on the shafts as does tire size (I'll be sticking with 33s). If I decide to lock then I have to revisit the axle question. Am I understanding this problem correctly?
Onto lockers: WP this weekend was a blast for me and my friend. We both enjoyed the "chess match" we seemed to get into every time forward motion stopped. I drove out of every obstacle with nearly every stoppage being due to traction loss on both axles while at least one wheel was in firm contact with the ground. Taking a trick from Mr Wing(man), I'm leaning toward no lockers. I like the idea of Aussie, but is there a way to completely disengage them?
And based on the number of times I whacked soft mud, I get the need for skids/diff cover.
So this makes my list:
1. Beef up steering
2. Figure out gear/axle/locker delima
3. PROTECT THE JEEP FROM THE DRIVER a.k.a. skids and covers
4. Seats
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Onto lockers: WP this weekend was a blast for me and my friend. We both enjoyed the "chess match" we seemed to get into every time forward motion stopped. I drove out of every obstacle with nearly every stoppage being due to traction loss on both axles while at least one wheel was in firm contact with the ground. Taking a trick from Mr Wing(man), I'm leaning toward no lockers. I like the idea of Aussie, but is there a way to completely disengage them?
Automatic lockers such as the Aussie are NOT selectable. You can't disengage them.
the D35 is junk. Spend $0 on it, they are all wasted dollars.
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The main issue with the D35 is the c-clip design and that once the axle breaks it allows the tire/brake vacate the vehicle... just look here for examples:
http://www.billhughes.com/dana35c/
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Everyone seems concerned with the d30/35 axles. New is out of the question (buying a new jeep would be cheaper). I looked around and while I can find ford 8.8, d40/44/60, and a wad of Chevy axles I'm not sure what I'm looking at. But I did find a number of incomplete or "needs body" projects (cj5, cj, and tj) that had axle and other miscellaneous upgrades. None of them were roadworthy, but is there any reason I couldn't use them for parts? What should I be looking at when considering axles and part vehicles?
Ford 8.8s found in 90s Explorers can be had for $200 or less, weld-on bracket kits that adapt them to your suspension are another $250 or so. There are a couple miscelaneous other things that are needed to make them work, there are a couple ways to get the e-brake to work. There is endless information on this swap... with good reason. They are plentiful, the right width, bolt pattern, aren't huge or overly heavy, and PLENTY strong. They are even available with 4.10 gears to match your current ratio if you didn't want to spend money doing both ends yet.
You might be able to find a factory TJ D44, but they usually run $500 or so in ready to run condition it seems.
There is no easy or cheap answer for the front axle. Run chromo shafts and risk breaking the gearset, or carry spare shafts. I don't see you having a huge issue with that, even locked, on 33s with a 4 banger though.
Going from lunchbox to selectable locker usually triples or quadruples the price. Your call on whether the extra cost is worth it. Driving with an Aussie front/welded 8.8 rear did not bother me at all in any weather condition, but I had a longer wheelbase and automatic.
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the 8.8 swap with artec truss in to Joes TJ i just did was awesome. only way id recommend if sticking with stock ish suspention type
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Explorers are a dime a dozen around here. That really does make it a bit easier to consider.
Assuming I find the 8.8 with 4.10, what damage will installation do to my wallet?
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depends on how much of the run around you want to do.
we would have to spec full brakes and lines for the axle- id assume youd want new parts in it.
a drive shaft flange adaprtor
Artec truss kit
6hrs install labor, 2 hrs welding labor (these things are serous)
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I don't think you would be interested but I'll throw in out there.
I have 2 sets of wagoneer axles now, which are Dana 44's and the front is driverside drop, I also have a set of 15" steel wheels (6 lug).
The alxes need nothing other than regeared for your tire size, and the rear already has an aftermarket lock right locker.
The front has new U-joints, and everything is tight, rotors are good, and calipers would go with it (It's still street driven), steering included.
I would take $500 for both axles, steering, and the wheels.
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(these things are serous)
I know. That's why I'm going to have someone else do it. I figure something like replacing a brake line, diff covers, and other "it won't kill you too bad" is my level right now. Once we start talking welding and things that keep you alive... I'm out.
Based on a quick think through on your short list, I can do brakes (done them in the past).
Based on what I've seen on the ds adaptor that shouldn't be to hard to do, but you'd want to make sure I'm not about to kill myself (although the mrs might thank you if that was the end result!).
I think the rest is all you.
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I don't think you would be interested but I'll throw in out there.
I would be interested.
I'm assuming the 6 lug are needed for the d44 (that's what I was seeing in my looking around). That would leave me with 4 sets of 15" 5 lug wheels and two axles to sell off. That might actually pay part of the new habit I seem to be forming.
How are they geared now?
Sounds like the rear needs full brakes. Right?
From what I can tell I'm going to be into M4 for a bit of time either way. If I can get both axles instead of one...
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i usually recomend go 8.8 or go 1 ton. not much inbetween worth swapping the 30 out in the front for anything else. if it were a leaf sprung yj, maybe if the deal was right for more gear or more track, but doing two serous axle swaps on a streetable jeep is a big jump.
what is your tire size you want again?33 or 35?
get a set of cromo rear shafts and be good ? cut back on labor and keep it pretty "stock"?
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chromo rear shafts
front ZJ tie rod
solid diff covers
skid the oil pan / trans
rocker rails / gaurds
front / rear recovery points
carry a pare set of shafts
get a 36M socket or whatever it is to change them :)
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I plan on sticking with 33s.
As to be good... I'm more likely to be a spectator when you folks go flying up rock creek than ever want to actually try it myself (you guys are nuts) but I would like to be able to wheel at the place in VA. Once the male child is gone the Mrs expects to be the co-pilot (that's only 1 year away) which will greatly impact my ability to be stupid. Not that I won't be stupid, but she makes it harder.
It does seem that locking a 35 is a very bad idea while a locked d30 ... not out of the question. was thinking 4:1 tcase to be nice to the little engine but that seems to be a good way to make a d35 very unhappy.
If I stay stock the list seems to be
1. steering
2. gears + spare d35 shafts (chromo)
3. front locker
3. protection from idiot driver
4. seats
I expect I will put some plates and covers in starting when diff covers at the move to 4.56.
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chromo rear shafts
front ZJ tie rod
solid diff covers
skid the oil pan / trans
rocker rails / gaurds
front / rear recovery points
carry a pare set of shafts
get a 36M socket or whatever it is to change them :)
This is what I would do barring a 1-ton and 37"-40" tires.
Add Aussies front and rear.
Carry a FULL set of spare shafts, front and rear even with Chromo shafts.
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None of them need anything, gears suck though 3.00 range.I could even throw in a 50% set of 35" Cooper STT's all for $500 that would really clean my shop out of extra stuff.
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as with every winter I plan on pulling my 4:1 case....
if it actually happens this year ill let you know
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Swapped the 33s for the 30s and this morning MLC is undrivable over 50MPH. Shakes to the point of no control and skipping across the road. have it at the mechanic for basic check out. No obviously missing wheel weights and nothing out of place when the wheels were off. Hopefully it is something I needed to upgrade anyway.
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"death wobble (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDSIfFhWau8)"?
...and don't call it that in front of your wife!
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Death wobble is definitely accurate. It was bad enough that a person behind me stopped to make sure I didn't need a ride. I'll have the mechanic check that.
BTW, the wife caught on that it was bad by the look of terror on my face when I came home.
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toe is way in, id bet
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BTW - the bigger the tire, the more pronounced it is because of the extra mass being tossed around! Been fighting this in the Rubicon lately...
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Never had it with the 33s. Only happens with the 30s. Called mechanic. Happened to him at 45mph. Scared the crap out of him too. He's looking at death wobble now...
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in my experience its always:
track bar axle location shot
>1" toe in
way out of balance tires
steering box loose from frame
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BTW - the bigger the tire, the more pronounced it is because of the extra mass being tossed around! Been fighting this in the Rubicon lately. ditto.
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Mechanics are sound. Nothing loose or broken. Only bend is the tie rod. Heading for alignment as soon as the wife is home.
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Save your self some coin and check the toe with a tape measure. Put both sides of front axle on Jack stands, pick a point on each tire most forward, measure, roll those two points half turn and measure in wheel well below lower control arms
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Should be toed in 1/8" or so on 30s, as in the total difference in distract between those points should be 1/80 less on the front than the back.
Chalk tape or paint marker work well to make your measuring marks. Go ahead and use the tread but don't count on it being 100% true: rotate the tires a half turn and measure on the same marks.
Tapatalking in traffic
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Alignment was needed. Toe was -0.3l and +0.6R (degrees). Done. Problem is less, but still exists when the suspension unload over a bump. Steering stabilizer is shot (piston is loose and I verified). Shop suggested I do it myself which seems very doable.
Does this seem like a reasonable source of the problem?
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You can take that off and leave it off. If replacing it fixes the death wobble, it's only masking the real issue.
My next guess would be the trackbar. Either wallowed out the hole on the axle end like Smike said or the joint at the frame end is shot. This can be verified by having one person steer the wheel back and forth with the wheels on the ground while you look for play at either end.
Did you disconnect your swaybars at WP? Increasing suspension travel like that is probably making that worn 1XX,XXX mile trackbar joint move in ways it never has before... mine did not last long once the swaybars started getting disconnected frequently.
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No play detectible. All motion I saw matched the motion of the body as the wheels moved though the range. At the extremes of steering there was nothing at all. Wingman provided a video that showed the test. I couldn't detect any motion let alone as much as seen there.
Swaybars attached since last/only trip to rausch. Figured it wasn't needed. I expect the axles have a all the 120K mi on them...
I'm sure I'm missing something.
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You should get it to M4 so it can be looked at. Should not take long to detect the problem there.
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That's what I'm thinking. Looks like I need to set up a visit. What's the best way to plan this?
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Some time on youtube was needed. I found http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqV2bUi0tGc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqV2bUi0tGc) which lined up with http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/how-to-fix-your-own-death-wobble/ (http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/how-to-fix-your-own-death-wobble/) and http://www.jeepz.com/forum/suspension/29510-wrangler-death-wobble-what-causes-how-fix.html (http://www.jeepz.com/forum/suspension/29510-wrangler-death-wobble-what-causes-how-fix.html)
Would a "clunk" in the joint between the pitman rod and drag link (that how the kevinsoffroad diagram is labeled) be a likely death wobble cause? You can feel it in the drag link and pitman if you put your hand on them when direction changes.
I also checked the trackbar again. While I don't "see" motion I can feel motion. It is seems likely to be rotation of the trackbar end which seems normal based on what I think it does.
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i have a drag link and i think a tie rod you could try on to see if it helps.
also have a kevins offroad steering stabilizer, which will only mask the issue, but could buy you time to replace parts/diagnose.
i'm in walworth
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Thanks for the offer. Wasnt paying attention and got an end from Napa and put it on. No more slop in steering but now have very clear trackbar movement. Bolt is not moving and tightened it up. No good still death wobbling and visible trackbar movement.
Looks like a call to M4 ...
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i ordered a track bar for you / m4 stock, didnt get a chance to check if the M4 stocked one i have from NuWay is a match up- either way we can make it work.
Advance also carries a Moog "problem solver" bushing for 15$ if your chassis end is good, or you wana save some parts / labor $$ that could be an option also.
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As I was driving in to the office (actually, the wife was chauffeuring which is a complete change in roles), it dawned on my that I may not have the right trackbar. Previous owner did a 3" lift which I think means the stock trackbar might not be long enough. I'll check for left/right alignment once I am near the death machine.
Do you want me to grab the bushing kit? I'm more concerned about "doing it right" than a few bucks right now. Mrs agrees.
And if anyone needs to convince the wife that a few extra dollars need to be thrown at a repair, a spin in a death wobbler does wonders.
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must need a long arm kit, a rubicon case, and new 35"s tires to fix it then hahaha!
how are the ball joints in this thing?
you can try the bushing replacement if thats the only play you see, it might just be that easy of a fix. if the frame side of the track bar is hosed, then might need to be pulled / replaced.
Moog Track Bar Bushing
Part No. K3176
Instock in Henrietta
most cheaper 2-4" lifts just tell you to drill a new hole in the track bar bracket axle side to effectively make your track bar longer at a little bit of geometry loss/error- should be fine in stock location, you just might notice your driver wheel is 1/2" further out from the boddy than the passenger wheel.
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Any chance we can plan to bring MLC to M4 on Thursday? If Wednesday is the best option for you I can do it, just seem to have less on the plate Thursday late afternoon.
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bring it to the club meeting tonight have a couple guys look at it?
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Let me see what I can do. I probably won't get there till after 7 though. What's the chance I'll wind up leaving it there?
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that would probably work out best for me. i have a CJ on the Lift right now, but could probably look at it thursday or friday. Sorry i cant help you out sooner or on a better time line- this ankle thing has really slowed down M4!
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Bring it to the meeting tonight and there will be plenty of people to look and see what the deal is. Then you will at least know what needs to be done.
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Working on it. Need to arrange for transport home. There is a 100% chance I will be later than 7PM.
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might be someone in the club heading back that way.
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Mr Wing lives out my way... Hmmmm....
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Be happy to.
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I'm in walworth.
and will be at the meeting.
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http://rochester.craigslist.org/pts/4054959633.html
this is the front axle out of a cherokee Smike used to have.
axle in stock form is worth $100
gearset/ bearings is worth $300
labor $200
so make an offer accordingly if you want it.
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grabbing a wheel bearing and track bar moog fix bushing while stopping at Mighty taco for this guy!
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Sweet.
After this morning's ride in the with Mrs, death wobble seems safer. She'll be glad to get the 200lb screaming monkey out of her passenger seat.
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http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/axles-tires-wheels-sale/1464666-rubicon-dana-44-axles.html
these would be sweet for this little hog. I could pick em up for you if needed. appears they are in eastern ADKs by the area code.
mark, what are they worth? i would think a good deal would be $3k.
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4.10s will still suck
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Current gears are 4.10 so it wouldn't suck worse. D44 do better with 4.88 than d30/35 so that would be a plus. Although a 4:1 t case would make that irrelevant.
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with small tires on this thing i wouldnt know its a 4cyl.
driver upper ball joint has 1/8" play
passenger wheeling bearing shot
both sides front wheel joints loose
CEL says o2 1 and small and large EVAP leak
gona get an M4 rework
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That isn't the factory 4. There's less than 20k on. That one. Previous owner really did get his money's worth out of that TJ.
I'm not site what is worse, three mechanics at two shops missing those issues or me not taking to you from the start. Either way Mrs agrees. Do it all. I think we discuss upper and low ball joints on both sides passenger wheel bearing, u joints and a diff check. Seem right?
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I don't think I'd pay more than $2k for those D44s. While they are great, they will need all LCA brackets and rear UCA brackets. The lowers are just thin and useless and if you are going this far into it, do it right. That said, bolt on and go. Should hold up pretty well to abuse with Chromos in the front.
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$2k is almost to a "partially built" dedicated wheeler. I found a few option on CL in the Syracuse area that may become MLC2 before too long. Most are full on D60, F9" or tons. I have pretty much unlimited access to a tow vehicle (a decent father-in-law is a great thing to have) and would only need to supply the wheeler.
The more I've been thinking through the MLC build the more I think it needs to be my "entry level" toy. Skids, front locker, bumpers (tow points) and winch. Keep it on 33s to use as a DD. Limit of road to WP and low level RC trails (we did a little red in june). Think of it as the 101 jeep.
Right now I need to get the wife good and hooked. Best way to free up the flow of $$.
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Wheel, build, wheel, build some more, wheel, build....
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solid plan!
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ball joints changed
track bar moog problem solver and 7/16" bolt fix done
wheel bearing changed
2 u joints changed
4 caliper slider bolts un seized and lubed
toe checked, and good at 1/8" in
driver side mangled wheel stud changed out
Death wobbel gone and drives to 75 but has a wicked darting thing going on side to side. cant find anything other than just about anything that touches a sway bar has slop.
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Side to side darting sounds fun. Not at 75 but then I drive like a grandma.
Drop me a PM with the total and pickup time.
Thanks.
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1. Remember I'm new to this level of vehicle mechanics.
2. Remember #1.
Need an explanation on transfer case ratios. My current case is something like 2.27. Obvious a 4.1 would make my poor i4 a bit happier. What I don't understand though is if the 4.1 changes the output in all settings or just 4L.
The reason I'm wondering is because I would like to avoid gearing the axles as that seems to be another way to make a d35 unhappy. So if a 4.1 transfer gets my 2H and 4H into a happier range for the poor i4, then a new TC is a no brainer move.
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only changes low range to 4:1
high range is still 1:1
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TJ guys what do you set your toe on stock ish tires?
just dawned on me these are 30" tires and not 35"s what im use to checking, so possibly 1/8"-3/16" toe in is too much on the tread of a 30?
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a little shy of 1/8" sounds about right to me, I usually go for 3/16 or a bit more on the 40s and 1/8 on 35sish
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i am thinking that monkeys that tried to do an alignment with 1/8 slop ball joints and a shot wheel bearing may have ended up setting the toe too far in. Ill try opening it up a little and see if that helps the wander it has.
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my bet is yes.
pretty sloppy to have done an alignment and missed BJ and WB
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Well, in defense of my "regular" guy he has told me several times "I don't do wranglers much and I don't see to many that are ... used like you're using this". I'll give him a pass. The other guys are supposed to be suspension/front end specialist (local shop not a chain) and two of them missed it. Not going back there for anything. Need to find a new alignment shop.
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I set mine close to zero.
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I set mine close to zero.
Aren't you the guy who thinks alignments are "optional"?
I'm not sure I want them listening to you...
:)
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Not me. I do mine in the garage with a couple of 4' levels clamped to the rotors.
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Not me. I do mine in the garage with a couple of 4' levels clamped to the rotors.
thats how i do the buggies that dont change toe when on the lift.
working on the ground is so annoying to me now lol
ill give it a half turn out or so today after work and see if it changes. its got to be that.
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wrong toe will make it darty. out feels unstable darty, in feels like fast turn in and eager darty.
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darty pulling is one thing
but this guy will s on its on back and fourth with wheel held firm no play in wheel.
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that sounds like a DW precursor.
play in box or pitman? I'm sure you checked bolts.
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that sounds like a DW precursor.
Grrr.... Don't even suggest that.
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ya i checked the box and pitman arm.
its got a couple torn TRE boots but they are all tight as far i can tell.
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that sounds like a DW precursor.
Grrr.... Don't even suggest that.
that's exactly the mechanics behind DW: slop in the steering system allows the effective steering angle at the tires to oscillate. That wander can build on itself when there is enough slop and viola! DW. A steering stabilizer masks that by dampening movement, therefore keeping it from wandering on its own and building up to death wobble.
I really hope that a little toe adjustment takes care of this one.
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i thought for sure a hot passenger rotor and sticker sliders were going to fix it. the extra work and back on the lift did no change.
i do hear a small click in the steering shaft, but all movement seems to move tires.
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I set mine close to zero.
this
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MLC is back.
A 30mi drive later and I think the front is toed out. It only seemed to wander on straights where I felt the need to give small corrections. If I took my hands off the wheel no wandering. When I did correct it took a bit to get a response then it over corrected which resulted in me overcorrecting the other way and then back to the top. It was very stable with any amount of constant turn radius or camber to the road. Basically if I needed to hold the wheel to one side or the other to keep on track it seemed stable. MLC also wants to push (understeer?) a bit more. It is very noticeable at low speed. It is more than "stop being lead foot" as it is noticeable with the clutch in. A very light brake and things start to move in the right direction.
Other than that, MLC drives better than ever. There has always been some shakiness as evidenced by the phone mount vibration. At 55 there was no movement of the phone at all (over 55 I was too busy going in a straight line to look at the phone). I didn't tell mike about the "passenger dive" under hard braking but that is now gone. I'm assuming that was the passenger caliper. There seems to be less noise too. None of the "clunk" I've been used to feeling.
Now I need to do is get the alignment shop to "do the right thing" and redo the alignment they never should have done in the first place.
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Mike, you don't want to read this...
Starts to oscillate between 54 - 58 (GPS measured) with mild DW symptoms. Small bumps set it off more dramatically at the front of the range. Motion seems more up and down with only a bit of steering feedback. It is speed related (tride 3, 4, and 5 gears) but doesn't seem to be balance as it stops abruptly at 58.
Steering is the same as last night. Had long stretches of 55+ down 104 with no issues as long as I avoided fast adjustments.
Ideas?
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I just remembered that this has a small lift in it with a stock trackbar. That will give some amount of bump steer.
If there's poor bounce control that could turn into some oscillation by itself, and that's sounding a little bit more like symptoms of bad shocks, worn bushings, and the bad swaybar stuff that was mentioned.
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We decided here it needs to be aligned and the toe reduced back close to zero. Thats step 1. i could not get the tie rod to budge with PB or heat last night before you picked it up. That needs to be broken free / broken off, and replaced. If it were me, i would replace all the TRE that have torn boots and then do the V8 swap tie rod before you take it back to an alignment shop.
Check for slop in any steering shaft connections.
Next i would swap to a different set of tires / or have those tires re-balanced.
Next i would go after the slop in the sway bar connections.
Next i would replace all the control arms in the front, starting with the passenger upper that had 1/10! of what i would consider unacceptable play.
at mike:
it has an aftermarket adjustable front swaybar. shocks feel good to me, arm bushings feel fine, his sway bar discos are a little egged out and have some play- meh
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It "feels" like I should to the upgrade before I get the alignment/toe adjust. If I do the toe now then change tie rod (and ends) then I'll need an adjustment after that as well. Does that seem right?
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Correct.
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Tie rod replacement happening on Sat. Went with the ZJ since Mike had one and Mrs is being stingy with the $$.
Been looking at axle options for the d35. I'm thinking that my best bet is to find a used d35 and pull all the parts. iI will need to find one with a 4.10 ratio, but that seems pretty easy. Most of the ones I'm seeing on CL are sub $100 so the Mrs is more open to the idea. What I don't know is "are all d35 created equal?" Meaning do I need one from a TJ or will any old d35c with 4.10 provide me usable donor shafts and diff parts?
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What parts are you harvesting?
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looks like 35% stronger chromo shafts are 140$ a piece
are all D35 shafts the same? i may have some in the pile from gutted axles that got scrapped.
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I'd say that if you are intent on keeping the D35, then save a little $$ and big headache and
looks like 35% stronger chromo shafts are 140$ a piece
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idk about tj's ,but xj's came with a c-clip and a nonc-clip d35
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My thought would be shafts and carrier assembly+pinion if 4.10. Shafts and spiders if not 4.10. From what I can tell most breaks are spiders and shafts with 4.10. If I regear to 4.56 then pinons seem to break a lot.
The cost of regearing seems like a waste at this point since I've been finding d44 and f8.8 with 4.56 and 4.88 within budget. I'd rather give Mike a few bucks to get a solid 8.8 in the rear than blow 1K on regearing the d35.
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looks like 35% stronger chromo shafts are 140$ a piece
Cheap chromo full sets (shafts only) NEW seemed to be in the $240 range. I think I saw a no-name at the $170 range. The only reviews I found were not good. Compare that to a full d35 off a cherokee on CL (syracuse) that was $60. I'm assuming diff issue or shaft issue, but if I got one good shaft out of it I'd still be ahead.
It is entirely possible I've been looking in the wrong places for new though.
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Changing the shafts is a pain. You have to remove the cover (draining all the oil) and fish out the little c-clip. Not a fun trail repair.
Chromo shafts will at least reduce the likelyhood of having to do that somewhere less than ideal. You can install them in a warm garage on a dry floor ;D
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Yeah. I get that. Right now it's about just getting by till the mrs is really hooked. Being kid free in a year will make it easier a bit later.
Quick question on replacing the tie rod: instinct tells me to apply thin grease to adjusting collar threads to prevent rust freeze up. Right idea?
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anti seize sounds like a solid plan
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Joe, matts brother has a 4.88 d35, extra 4.10 gear set, and extra set of shafts. His junk before we did the 8.8 swap
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Done. Not too hard. Nice to have an "emergency spare" should I need it. Just need grease gun for tre and will take it for a spin. Toe set to 0 (66 3/8" front and rear using staples I put in tread).
D35 with gearing and spares is very tempting. Aren't 488 risky in a d30/35? More so than just a 410 or 452 or wheeling on a d35 ...
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Would DW cause/be caused by a steering fluid leak?
Noticed a very large a mont of fluid while chasing a noise under MLC. Traced it up to the steering fluid pump (assuming the a pulley driven device with hose to steering fluid reservoir is the pump). This leak was not evident last weekend so I'm wondering if it is a possible cause of the current behavior. The fluid on the control arm was still clean and red to a signifanct amount of it is fresh.
Thoughts?
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Sadly nope. Pump issues won't effect anything but steering effort.
Tapatalking in traffic
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Much better. Still a little wiggle every now and then. Still need more driving but seem more stable. DW didn't show up in the short test drive. Will take it out tonight and see if it is gone.
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Have a whole spare TJ Dana 35 with 4.10 R&P. Blown 4.88's in there now. Have a bunch of extra parts/seals too.
$100 for everything.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)
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Starting to think about a locker for the front. I like the idea of selectable (run open until open won't cut it). The Auburn ECTED series seems to make sense to me but I'm not seeing any reviews. Anyone know anything about them?
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Personally, I would (and have) run an Aussie in the front. The cost differential is too large for the benefit, IMHO.
But, if I was going to run an selectable, it would be an OX or ARB. The ECTD is a limited slip that gets "more limited" when its on. Its never a spool. I had a Eaton ELocker in my front D60 and didnt like it. It was unreliable and I worried about breaking it after reading review and feedback online. I replaced it with a welded carrier.
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The ARB is top-of-the-line for pneumatic lockers and have been for years...
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aussie, ask Bill for clubdiscount
150$ for M4 to install
get a spare set of front shafts or two
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get a spare set of front shafts or two
Rears covered (thanks to matt). Fronts will be obtained by spring trip to rausch. Not waiting for lockers to cover my arse... I have to drive MLC home at the end of the trip.
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spare set of fronts in M4 pile, need joints
100$ as is
160$ new joints installed
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And it won't matter what locker you put in the front, a set of shafts is a high priority!
My $0.02 = put an Aussie in and run it. Don't waste too much $$ on the D30.
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spare set of fronts in M4 pile, need joints
100$ as is
160$ new joints installed
If you'll hold on to those for a "bit" I'll take them with the new joints. Need to pay Matt for the 35 and then shake the money tree (aka wife) for more funds. If someone comes along and takes them feel free to sell them though.
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I'll also throw my $.02 in for running an Aussie in the front. Going gentle on 35s I was fine, though alloy shafts are still in the future for me.
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ARB.. do not go electric...
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BAH!
Need a windshield. Insurance is covering it. Any thing I need to watch out for with local installers? Recommendations?
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safelite and done
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I used a company, they came to my house and did it. It may have been safelite. Your welcome for all this help :)
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Most places have a mobile service. Just a matter of calling and setting up an appointment. May take a day to get the glass...
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DubT had a gasket issue that resulted in a rotten windshield frame. Not sure of root cause or company.
Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)ing in traffic
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just an FYI on windshield frame replacement...
as mike said.. if you have rotted or rusted windshield frame they may not replace if they can’t guarantee safety or a good seal..
simple glass ends up needing a new windshield frame… if that’s the case..
Jeepglass.com
shipped as a bolt on unit.. in body match color
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No rust that I can see. I think the frame may be a replacement. I'll triple check before scheduling with anyone.
The hinges though... Those need some cosmetic help.
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I used Mr glass before and turned out good and real cheap. It's like another $20 to have them come to you instead of bringing the vehicle to them
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Mike (m4wd mike),
I have developed a squeak in the drive train with the following characteristics
* Only present when transmission is in gear and clutch is out.
* Higher RPM increases rate of squeak.
* If drive train "pressure" is removed (let up on gas, disengage clutch) squeak vanishes.
I first noticed it at Rausch. It went away until about 3 days ago. Now it is constant and present in all RPM ranges. I can't find it with the car up on jacks. Any suggestions before I drop it off on your doorstep?
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sounds like a drive shaft ujoint is dry
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If any of those are CV joints, they are better squeakers if the center pin dries up. not sure if any are CVs on that unit, I'm thinking no
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front shaft, tcase end should be a double cardan. yes, those love to dry up.
can pull the front shaft to trouble shoot that.
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MLC spent a bit of time at M4 last night. Looks like the CV on the rear axle is toast. Looking for an east side shop to do a rebuild (that's what I need, right Mike?). On the plus side, I have a nicer-than stock driveshaft that will now be good to go for spring Rausch trips.
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Cook Brothers
156 Newbury St.Rochester, N.Y. 14613Local: 1-585-458-1520
FleetPride Truck & Trailer Parts
Address: 1437 Scottsville Rd, Rochester, NY 14624
Phone:(800) 724-0849
Hours: Wednesday 7:30 am – 5:00 pm
Needs a full CV rebuild, should get a rear joint just because, and spin balance
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Rear wheels are no longer connected to the engine.
Thanks to some tips from Mike I only injured myself 7 or so times. There's a reason I normally pay others to do this type of work.
Off to Scottsville.
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Fixed. So is micro death wobble and steering wheel direction.
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Need advice on tub "repair".
It is in pretty good shape. A few dents and surface rust. One area that concerns me is the rear passenger corner. There is rust "bubble" just forward of the roll cage. It isn't flaking, but is clearly deep in the metal. no rus is visible outside (wheel well). Do I just knock it off and bondo it or do i need to take more drastic measures.
It doesn't appear to go under the roll cage mount...
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Burn it. :P
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wrap it in 1/4" plate after wire wheeling the spot and painting with POR or Rustouleum rust stopper
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Burn it. :P
Now that's just mean.
wrap it in 1/4" plate after wire wheeling the spot and painting with POR or Rustouleum rust stopper
I'll need some help with the plate. Something you do?
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many bolt on companies sell kits for rear fenders / tube fenders / rock rails ect
pretty hard to beat their prices with custom work
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This is not the rear corners. This is on the top of the wheel "hump" in the tub, directly in front of the bolts holding the roll cage down. The only thing I found to "replace" was a whole tub.
The rust on the rear corners will be addressed by replacing the corners. That seems to be a pretty common thing to fix.
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Inside the tub... That'll be custom work.
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Burn it. :P
+2 :)
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Do you see what you started Mark? Do you see?
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;D
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TNT corner armor or let it be
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MLC has officially joined the ranks of Aussie Locker equipped vehicles (front only).
She now has back windows that can be taken off AND put back on.
DW seems to be under control with new ball joints and wheel bearing from M4 plus all new TRE and ZJ upgrade.
M4 fixed some exhaust problem last night (more an idiot owner problem).
Next on the list is some rust work, paint touch ups to prevent more rust, and electronics work. Mrs wants me to replace the front fenders.
Thinking about using the 33s permanently so 4.56s may be in her future. Going to see how the 33s do with a little snow before I commit though.
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http://www.jeep4x4center.com/smittybilt-xrc-armor-tube-fenders-textured-black-sb-76872.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=productfeed&utm_campaign=cse&gclid=CJWF77rB87oCFXHxOgodMSMA7w
http://www.extremeterrain.com/smittybilt-xrc-armor-front-tj-76872.html?utm_content=yearfitment&utm_campaign=56543462406-avshop&utm_source=google-pla&utm_medium=shopping&utm_term=&adpos=1o5&network=g&XTID=J16283&adtype=pla
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Those are the one's she's been eyeballing. I thinking the 4.56s would be a better move right now. The driver side is already see through so it won't get "worse". Getting the engine happier would make things better all around.
And no Mark, "burn it" isn't going to happen.
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Well, fine... ;D
Don't waste your time with stock sheet metal fenders. Every TJ that gets wheeled ends up with the passenger side pushed in.
If you are going to put highway miles on this in the winter, do yourself a favor and get a good set of snows. While loads of "fun" in the snow, fat 33s will require very sensible driving habits. Save the 33s for summer time.
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i like how one fender says easy install, and the other says serous modifications to fender and professional installation recommemded- and they are the same fender ha
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I looked at the XRCs and I think it's something a moderately capable person can do. I want to get them in hand before I decide if you get my $$ or not though. There is some minor cutting of the hood and body (no longer needed supports for the factory fender IIRC).
Mark, XRC is a full replacement of factory. Already decided not to go with the screw on type as it seems silly. Only thing I don't really like with the XRC is the small size. If I stick to the 31s for dd use then I don't think spray will be too bad. As it is the 33s double the drops on the windshield...
Winter dive is limited to "get to the paycheck". Two lane back roads and 104 from ontario to webster. I might move to Plank just to get away from the winter stupid drivers on 104 (did that last year). Plan was to try the 33s and fall back to 31s (31x9.5) when I get tired of changing my shorts at the office. And, as my wife reminded me again this morning, I "drive like an old lady" so I might be able to get away with the fun a bit.
I'm not planning on selling the 31s though.
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I think this is what I'm looking for...
http://www.genright.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=TFF2800#.UozPsNKkqvI (http://www.genright.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=TFF2800#.UozPsNKkqvI)
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I love GenRight products!
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Because I'm planning to DD for a bit I thought 6" would be a good idea. Has mount to "keep it legal". Trying to decide if aluminum is worth $100 to be rust free. Seems like a no brainer. It isn't like I'm keeping up with the buggies so they won't get beat outside the random tree. Judging by the broken light covers on the flares now I will be introducing any fender I install to woodland CO2 scrubbers often.
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need rubber or good paint between alu and steel... also stainless hardware..
GenRight has some awesome Alu fenders..
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Let me set Mark up for a "burn it" post...
12.5s in slush were too evil for me (for now). Put 9.5s on. Mini-DW is more prevalent and less predictable. Mike suggested control arms. Based on the beating the mounts have taken I'm expecting Mike is already adding up the labor and costs to fix and beef up both axle and frame mounts. So here are the questions...
1. I suspect that the "three inch lift" may want longer control arms based on the last castor measurement (was way out of spec on the sheet). What do I want to look for so I only do this one time?
2. Mrs says MLC is offensive to her eyes with the 30's. What do I need rim/tire to get a narrow 33 for winter? I can't find anything in 9.5-ish width for a 15" rim. The metric stuff is still a dark art so some pointers would be appreciated.
Cue Mark...
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BFG makes an all terrain in 33x10.50. They maybe have made 9.50 version at one point, but not not any longer I don't think. Those are some of the best tires you can run in the snow in my opinion. Not the 9.5 width, but a 10.50 wide all terrain will be worlds better than a 12.50 mud terrain in the snow.
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I had 13.5 wide terra grapplers on my truck, loved those things in the snow
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Sorry, late. Burn it!
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Get your fenders zinc dipped and powder coated before you get them on mine have driven me up the wall. Granted it's just superfluous surface rust but I think it looks like crap
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
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Epoxy primer
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Jared had the best powder coater do his fenders with all the magic available. They still rust.
Just another fun benefit of living and driving in NY! :'(
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I'm really thinking that aluminum is in my future.
Wicked DW last night. Had a dog in the car. Dog wanted out. Good thing I have the new top on with rear windows or I would have been looking for a dog all night.
Assuming the next step is control arms … I'm finding different answers/opinions on needing uppers and lowers or just lowers. I'm looking at the Rugged Ridge/Rusty's (seem to be the same) but was wondering if there is something that eliminates the rubber(ish) bushings.
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Death wobble can be cause by any or any sum of the following
steering box slop / bolts loose
tie rods slop
wheel bearing slop
tire imbalance
shock degradation
track bar slop
ball joints
improper toe / alignment
control arm bushings bad
in my experience its always toe and track bar
not sure next step with your jeep.
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toe should be 0, correct? i'll check again at lunch.
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If you are going to do control arms, bite the bullet and long-arm it. No sense throwing money at it more than once...
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custom m4 3 link front with polly bushings on end and currie jonny joints on the other. new trak bar with heims both ends.
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Custom m4 3 link front with poly bushings on end and Ruff Stuff heims on the other. New track bar with heims both ends.
FIFY
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How bad is the wobble?
Tire inbalance and whooped control arm bushings together can give you a good wobble. Shakes the change in the ashtray and you can see the stuff in your passenger seat shaking. That type of thing.
Death wobble is holy shit, pull over to the side of the road to collect yourself and wonder how your front axle is even still connected to your Jeep after such an incredibly violent occurance.
Which would you say you have?
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Smike, sorry if this was stated earlier, but did you check the castor?
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no, but id guess it be like 3-4 instead of 7 because of the lift
I like toe to be 1/16" to 1/8" on the tread of a 33"
1/4" on a 40"
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Harrison, I stopped so the dog and I could change our shorts. This is the type where other cars are flashing at you and diving for the side of the road so you don't kill them. Serious DW.
Castor was off. Can't find the report from the alignment place. I want to say if was under the min spec.
I did adjust toe to remove a bit of wiggle with the 33s. 31s were checked for balance before going back on. I'll be doing a "garage toe adjust" here in 60 minutes or so.
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I like toe to be 1/16" to 1/8" on the tread of a 33"
1/16th ok for 31s?
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When other cars can tell something is wrong, yes that is definitely death wobble hahaha
I'd be interested to know what the castor actually was. With front end parts either inspected or replaced by M4, I'm suspicious
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weak caster spec plus whooped CA bushings could add up to badness... not sure about full on DW unless they are seriously sloppy though
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the only CA that was even close to the smallest amount of play was the upper pass front at the axle. it was by way better than most jeeps i see regardless.
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Mike has been looking at it. nothing seems loose. I'm hoping it is just a difference in toe between the 33 and the 31. It's a bit concerning that it never really "goes away" just lingers in the background. For the record here's what mikes done:
wheel bearing passenger
ball joints (all)
multiple check overs
I replaced
tre at the pitman
full zj upgrade for tr/tre
Mike looked it over last on 11/19. We checked springs, shocks and the normal stuff. not sure what else is left other than wheels control arms.
There's always Mark's option...
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Life lessons from MLC:
1. Don't question the wife. She can make life miserable.
2. Don't question Mike. He's going to be right so just do what he says.
3. Just because it's a 4 banger doesn't mean you can't have fun.
That last one was gratuitous.
Mike, set toe to 0 to get it from OH CRAP!! to Eh. Anything else was bad. Even at 0 there is a distinct "let me kill you" under the surface. Something isn't quite right but it can wait.
To that "something isn't right" add this: measure toe, lower vehicle, raise vehicle, measure toe. Doing just that and changing touching nothing else, the measurement changes. Largest difference was 5/8". how could it be changing if I have the adjusting collar locked and am only touching the jack? It it matters the jack is a 6ton bottle and I'm putting it at the mid point of the axle.
I'm getting closer to agreeing with Mark after this.
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you have to sit the axle on two jack stands close to level, and close to the ground is best.
articulating the axle will effect steering rods angles, and with your steering that effects toe.
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Mystery explain. It will be quicker next time.
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If you are going to do control arms, bite the bullet and long-arm it. No sense throwing money at it more than once...
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f127/new-clayton-offroad-tj-long-arm-upgrade-1831458/
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Got to love hill billies. Sitting the family cottage here in WV where they refuse to install a phone line, there are 9 open wifi routers. A little vpn for security and … Anyway…
Managed to get 200mi on MLC before I left town. she behaved all the way to 75. Still has the shimmy at 50-54 that has always been there. Seems a bit more pronounced with the roller skate wheels. Not sure I shouldn't chase that down and fix it, but it will likely wait till after the holidays.
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where in WV?
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Lumberport is where we collect. The homestead is Bridgeport.
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I'm about to start digging into the electrical issues on MLC. I have a Haynes manual for general service that has some electrical. Is there a better schematic that I can get from someone like Arie?
Next: how much fluid is needed in a diff? Looking to stock my shelf and don't want to under buy.
Finally: any recommendations on oil? I have a rebuilt i4 that has less than 20K on it. I would think SAE30 but not sure if something different for offroading...
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That Haynes manual will have diff capacity in it. I usually fill until it starts running out the fill hole.
Manufacturer probably recommends 5W30 in your crankcase in whatever flavor you like. Our sport doesn't really require anything different.
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Rubicon G2 axles...
http://www.rc4x4.org/rcforum/index.php/topic,21038.0.html
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Rubicon G2 axles...
http://www.rc4x4.org/rcforum/index.php/topic,21038.0.html
I know that guy pretty well and can talk to him if you might be interested.
Mark, what would be a good deal on those? $3k?
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Curious what locker is in them. I was thinking more like $2k.
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Curious what locker is in them. I was thinking more like $2k.
It says stock lockers.
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Sorry, poor reading skills this early...
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Do it.
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Isn't the stock ABR?
5.13s would definitely make MLCs little engine happier off road, but I think it might make highway speed nearly impossible.
And since I couldn't get the ok to even make an offer on that d60 from Cora's I'm pretty sure these will be out of reach for me.
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These thing do not come up all the time.
DO IT. ;D
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5.13s with 33-35s on the highway would pry be pretty sweet with a 4 banger. Let'er spin!
I bet he wants $4k for them
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Bolt in. Just need to supply air.
Don't believe they are ARBs but they do work. Stock air pumps are tiny little things...
These thing do not come up all the time.
DO IT. ;D
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they come up once in a while. if you want a set down the road we can find you one, but will likely have stock 4.10s and not 5.13s.
not sure what its like with your manual, but my auto is happy with 37s and 5.13 gears. could almost use more gear on the road. i'll have to run the numbers.
http://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html
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I get the feeling the health of my marriage is not the chief item of concern here...
If I could I would.
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;D
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they come up once in a while. if you want a set down the road we can find you one, but will likely have stock 4.10s and not 5.13s.
not sure what its like with your manual, but my auto is happy with 37s and 5.13 gears. could almost use more gear on the road. i'll have to run the numbers.
http://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html (http://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html)
33s with 4.10s can not get to 5th gear. Not enough spank without those last two cylinders. With the 31s she cruzes right along all the way to 70. My plan was to move to 4.56s and get all new rubber with 33 for both DD and fun time. That was more about the d30/d35 limits than any reluctance to go bigger.
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joe has 4.10's and 35s with a 4 and doesnt seem to complain to bad.
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Automatic?
95% of my driving is in the 45-55 range which sits from 1800-2200 in 4th at about 1/3 throttle. Once in 5th it is thin peddle to the floor to keep 55 at about 1900. It isn't undrivable. The biggest thing is the difference in throttle. I played with doing 55 in 3rd and needed much less throttle but didn't like running at 3K all the time. Gas consumption was much lower though...
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stick
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3k is a good cruising speed for the 4 squirrels at highway speeds!
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65 on the 31s is 2700 in fifth...
You have all ruined my plan yet again.
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I have been somewhat quiet about my big project for MLC. It has nothing to to with increased capability (right now) but is more focused at adding/upgrading some features. Things like automatic lights, push button start (no key but no rfid either) color selectable interior lighting, digital display of data to driver, etc. Basically all the nice features on newer cars.
This weekend I managed to get the lighting and vehicle energizing (enter code to enable acc/starter) working. not much to look at now, but next post "should be" the prototype running on a 14v bench supply.
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(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/16/gaze8yje.jpg)
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Adjusted for rotation...
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/16/ese9y6e5.jpg)
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That is some techy stuff there!
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Id like to make a withdrawl... where is the card reader?
Lol
Looks expensive
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Don't get me started on cc number stealing ... Zero protection and you'd never know I had it.
Still need relays and custom casing. Wiring needs indeterminate until I figure out how much of the existing relay wiring I can reuse. So far I'm only about $100 into it. What you see there is less than $60 total.
Granted there are tools you don't see that are prerequisite just like with any other trade.
I still need to acquire an obd2 interface chip and the 1" led sets to replace speedo tach etc. Maybe another $60 there.
Anyone do custom aluminum cutting "cheap"?
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Whatcha doing in Bridgeport? I graduated from BHS.
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That's the family homestead. Mrs is a local (fairport) but I've resisted assimilation. We try to get down there at least once a year.
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This will be pretty cool!
But most guys try to get rid of as much electronic stuff. Less to break and leave you stranded.
Oh wait, you're not like most guys... ;D
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Actually, this should reduce the "breakage" issues. Other than the relays (intention is to mount under hood), control switches will be replaced with microcontroller logic. Guages will be moved from mechanical to digital. LED bar graphs for or 7 segment numericals, and in the case of performance data like throttle position, air flow, o2 reading, error codes, etc, these will be stored on an SSD with time stamp and GPS data that will be displayable on both the on board LCD and readable in a text editor on a computer. Engine data will be retrieved from the OBD2 port (pass through for external readers) and can be disconnected with a tug.
So I'm fixing the broken fan controls, busted light switches, flaky speedo, tach, and temp guages, busted ignition switch and preventing the continued draining of the battery by an idiot leaving the lights on, in the most complicated way possible.
And admit it, you'd take a digital HUD over a stock dash... Once I get my up and running you'll know who to talk to.
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Got distracted by Mr Wing...
As of last night the key code entry is now preventing power up until successful code entry. Need to add the "add authorized driver" stuff and then start on discrete device control logic + UI elements. Also need to consider moving much of the variable config to external EEPROM/SSD to avoid excessive writes on the internal flash. using SSD would also allow external updates of configs.
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in the most complicated way possible.
Yeah, you fit in here :)
Don't get me started on cc number stealing ... Zero protection and you'd never know I had it.
Do you work in security, or just have the mindset?
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Don't get me started on cc number stealing ... Zero protection and you'd never know I had it.
Do you work in security, or just have the mindset?
Yes. To both. Unix hack from the old days of 9600b modems. With the advent of the 'net had to keep up on logical and physical security. banking systems always make me nervous as they move to more interconnected platforms using commodity HW and communication methods.
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laymen terms please..
is my shit safe?
because everytime it gets stolen the money is back on the card the next day...
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ratio of sheep to intelligent thieves is astronomical high. Chances i will get chosen very low. chances it will get fix quickly- high.
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yeah thats what i thought...
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laymen terms please..
is my shit safe?
because everytime it gets stolen the money is back on the card the next day...
Safe to a point and for the exact reason you state. The banks take the loss on the chin. The reason they can do this is through cost reduction by implementing much lower cost (initial and sustaining) technologies thereby increasing their profits. Example: ESL and other banks ATM kiosks - a) by using ATMs they don't have to pay employees and have greatly reduced facilities costing b) by leveraging widely available internet services (most are dsl) the banks do not need to invest in closed WAN which run a 1000x higher cost c) by acclimating users (customers) to non-human interactions there is less demand for customer services further reducing personnel cost (users more willing to self-serve on the net).
There is also the banking FDIC (and others) insurance programs. These reduce risk to the consumer when the banks take on larger risks by moving to cost reducing but less secure technologies. The programs require stringent security checks that should protect personal info (called PII for Personal Identity Information). But if you've watched any tech reports you'll see that even the best security methods are compromised regularly.
So yes you're safe, but not really. You are protected from fraudulent charges, but should someone use your CC to get access to PII you're screwed.
For the record it is easy to steal your $$ with a CC stip reader, a tape writer, and paper. Getting the PII to "own you" is a bit harder and requires a bit more work.
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Exactly. The costs of fraud are too low for banks to be motivated to true prevention. They just keep charging their fees and making buku bucks and eat the fraud.
The fact that the money can go missing is the issue. At least we don have te false security here if chip & pin as in the UK - that system is supposedly so secure that customers are liable for fraud - yet it's still hack able.
Smike hits the nail on the head. Security through small odds
Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)ing in traffic
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nobody wants to be all of me...
so let them have it..
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ratio of sheep to intelligent thieves is astronomical high. Chances i will get chosen very low. chances it will get fix quickly- high.
The trick for most of the thieves is finding the best sheep. A $1 charge to a dummy business account that doesn't get questioned indicates someone not balancing statements. Once they have that they have a good mark for a sellable number.
The best scam I seen documented is the "$10/mo" service fee. Company poses as a credit protection agency and does a monthly for $10 or so. You call the number and it seems a legit business. Most sheep think it is something they signed up for via the CC company. Folks walk with lots of money.
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So since we're talking security, that's one of my first thoughts with what you're building here. Previous to RFID keys authenticating to the vehicle the only thing preventing hot wiring is the inconvenience. Where the wires are simple they're semi secure in the column and where they're accessible they're loomed in a massive bundle. Without an RFID token authenticating to the PCM or BCM it seems like popping a couple relay covers or grabbing a couple paper clips would have you running here? That doesn't seem terrible due to the odds of someone trying rather than just being confused by the changes, but still. Thoughts?
Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)ing in traffic
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There really is no security. Bolt cutters, wire nuts, hammer and I think we could take any car that does not have a ECU interrupt (which I believe is what the PCM/BCM methods really do).
That said, the actual brains will all be under the hood (end state). so unless you know the key matrix well enough to guess the pass code you will need to get into the engine compartment and hotwire it there. I'm effectively removing all in cab analog (which is really just digital control v+) as well as the associated uC and replacing them with my own. There will still be some in cab uC but those will be non-critical systems.
Not sure that answers...
But as you can see, fix a simple switch problem with a rube goldberg machine.
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There really is no security.
truer words have rarely been spoken :)
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I used a resistor today!
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Move out of the ghetto and your problems are solved
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I've heard palmyra called a lot of things. But that's a new one. Kind of fits though ...
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I live in Marion and don't even have the keys to my house
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Same here. I have 30 keys that came with the house. Haven't ID'd any but the barn.
The jeep though has key issues. Only need a screw driver (I used a dime once) to start it. Lock cylinder is shot. And I can't ever seem to remember to shut the lights off. Tying all the auxiliaries to a master switch so I don't need the jumper cables quite so often.
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@#$%!!!
DW on the way in this morning. Had a coworker turn steering wheel while I looked for things. Didn't see anything. Will check alignment when I get the aveo out of the bay. Not sure how alignment would change while MLC sat in the driveway over the weekend...
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has there been an actual caster measurement? what's the steering dampener status?
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Had mrs check last "real" alignment numbers. Castor is - Not very helpful.
Damper has not been replaced. Been taking the "high road" of fix the problem instead of covering it up. I have a new unit waiting to go on. Looks like I'll be doing that sooner tater than later.
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No recorded measurement on the castor you mean?
I'm sticking with castor and/or trackbar loosiness (can't remember if trackbar had been addressed yet.)
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No recorded measurement on the castor you mean?
Yes. Just a - where a measurement should be. Need to find a better place to go to ...
I'm sticking with castor and/or trackbar loosiness (can't remember if trackbar had been addressed yet.)
sMike did the trackbar thing. Checked out OK. The other thing I need to get looked at is the possibility of a crappy tire or 3. MLC was fine when she was parked on Friday. Did not move until today.
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I'm guessing bad bushings in the control arms
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control arm mounts are messed up but seems tight (sMike, correct me if I'm wrong). Was thinking that long arm would be better than rebuild with adjustable c.a. and that would have required new mounts...
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Check your balljoints. Everytime i've fought with DW they have been the underlying culprit
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Check your balljoints. Everytime i've fought with DW they have been the underlying culprit
sMike replaced them (upper and lower both sides) back in ... July. Did wheel bearing on pass side (driver checks ok), and all new parts from the pitman to the knuckles.
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What are you running for a track bar? My old jks would deflect almost 4 inches vertically at full lock. Just imagine what it did when i hit a bump in the road. Made for an interesting ride to say the least.
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Stock.
Just to add insult to frustration, no DW home from work, none driving to walmart, DW home from walmart.
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fear of falling prices...
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Jeep hates walmart. Good taste! :)
Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)ing in traffic
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Options are slim out this way. Kind of a no mans land.
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the job you save might be your own
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Walmart has Xerox devices in the back office. It's kind of a two edged sword.
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That's got to be a decent sized account.
I'm back to dealing with a couple dozen wax spewers myself. Like this one(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/25/9yju9yju.jpg)
Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)ing in traffic
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Can't help you there. I deal with the "phone home" platforms and other X internal stuff. If you need help with the cubes let me know and I'll see if I can get someone on the device group to teach out to you.
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we know what the root cause is likely to be - printers and wobbly tables being bumped and paper drawers being slammed. the ink can slosh and coat the print head mechanisms. It's your loss not ours for the most part, shit's all under warranty.
This summer it looks likely that you'll actually own it all. Would be nice if you were going to own the maintenance too but that'll still be part of my group. The Library IT staff will get out of the print server business though and they're happy as can be about that.
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Would be nice if you were going to own the maintenance too but that'll still be part of my group.
X will do that too for the right amount of $$. Which is where things start to get dicey. X doesn't normally keep local resources and replaces them with our own internal people. It's kind of a hatchet approach for the customer. Whack off the folks that you know and let us mess up your day to day ops for two months while our guys come up to speed. The math works out to the customer advantage if they survive the first three months. If...
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Seems like a good candidate to replace the turdy five.
http://rochester.craigslist.org/pts/4259345724.html
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Man. That is a killer price. I need to fight for this one. If only Mrs wasn't already asking about the the complete spare 35 sitting in the barn...
Was thinking about an Aussie in the rear until I actually watched a youtube vid of replacing a rear 35 shaft. I get the issue with C-clip now. that and the disc kit makes this really hard to ignore.
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A 8.8 would be a better choice, especially since the 44 listed needs gears. You can find an 8.8 for less with the proper gears already installed (4.10).
That 44 is a leaf sprung axle, so brackets need to be welded on anyway.
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Aren't 8.8 C-clip?
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J and J sells them for $150-$200 I believe.
8.8 is c-clip, but the shafts are bigger, you wont break one with a 4cyl. And they are easier to find shafts for to carry as spares. All stock parts are a plus, no piecing together stuff and hope it works.
Many of us have done the 8.8 and I dont recall any broken shafts or ring gears. Nick has one in his ZJ I had one in my ZJ keith in his TJ, Joe has one in his TJ, I think Matt put on in the YJ?
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I know Matt did 8.8 in the YJ. We talked about it when he dropped of the d35 spares. I'm thinking about using the d35 till I run out of parts (two full sets of shafts waiting for a chance to break). Even have a spare 4.10 R&P should I blow mine up. With all the spares on hand I was seriously considering locker for the rear but that C-clip seems to be a recipe for hatred with a locker in there. Maybe a C-clip eliminator would be worthwhile until I decide how far to really take MLC out of stock TJ.
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FWIW..
Dorman sells stock 8.8 shafts
an 8.8 is essentially a 9".. stronger than a D44 and cheaper to work with..
stock disk brakes and away you go..
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ps: 1 in the YJ and 1 in the MJ
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You are going to spend $200 on a locker for the d35 why not skip that spend $200 on the 8.8? It is really not that expensive to do a axle swap. Don't bother with a d44 just get a 8.8 and be done with it.
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I think some of you guys are forgetting that Jaysen needs to get all of the link brackets (~$300+) and weld them on. TJ's aren't leaf like Cherokees, and GCs and YJs. It won't just be the axle purchase.
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You are going to spend $200 on a locker for the d35 why not skip that spend $200 on the 8.8?
Just to reiterate one point, I was going to spend $200 on a d35 locker. Then I watched a non-M4 install of an Aussie (Vermont Jeepgirl) and said to myself "hey stupid, how do you plan on getting that clip out when she can't get it in with the axle off, cover pointed to the ceiling, and not a single rock in the way?"
It seems to me that a locked 35 C-clip has no chance at a trail repair. Not saying it couldn't be done, but once those springs are in, how the heck do you get the clip out? It looks like I'll go open on the rear until I make the swing to something different. 8.8 is still in the running, but not thrilled about the clip on principal.
Mark's comment on cost is valid though. As Cora pointed out, there is a point where I need to ask, "Should I buy Rubi? or Moose? or ...". MLC is a ton of fun, but once I start cutting that far into her would it be smarter to keep her as my DD and go full on with something for RC, AOAA, etc... Just a thought.
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Got to walk before you can run..
500 and done
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Mark's comment on cost is valid though. As Cora pointed out, there is a point where I need to ask, "Should I buy Rubi? or Moose? or ...". MLC is a ton of fun, but once I start cutting that far into her would it be smarter to keep her as my DD and go full on with something for RC, AOAA, etc... Just a thought.
At this point, I think that something like a buggy is getting ahead of things a little. Sure, we all probably look back and say we should have started with a buggy. But realistically, the road of "build, wheel, break, repeat" has a lot going for it. There are numerous skills, both wrenching and wheelin, that you pick up along the journey that you'd miss out on if you just open your wallet...
Got to walk before you can run..
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I just figured it would be a good candidate because I thought I saw him talking about a re-gear before anyway and I didn't think it was a whole lot of money for a proper width 44.
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At least one time, I had a rear tire wedged between two rocks with my 8.8. I kept giving it more, and more, and more gas until I realized my foot was on the floor. Nothing happened aside from trans slipping. They are f'ing strong for what they are.
That $500 could be mostly recouped in a part out or make MLC more attractive to someone looking to buy wheel-ready Jeep when resale time comes.
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I bought my 8.8 ready to bolt into an XJ for $175 and sold it for $200 after 2 years of abuse like above. The internals showed no signs of abuse. TJ axles go for more with brackets ready to go.
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the artec kit we did for joes tj was pretty mint
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Completely agree with everyone. Thinking out loud more than anything. Notice that I'm expecting trail repairs. I'm actually enjoying a bit of the torture of learning this much about MLC. Prior to MLC I wouldn't have changed my own oil, let alone ordered what I need to do things like diff fluid, tuneup, etc.
But there is a point where spending money needs to be done smartly. As Nick said, why drop $200 on a d35 locker and $100 on used spares, when I could get a stronger platform for the same price (less install and perches)? Alternatively, $200 for an Aussie, find a c-clip eliminator, and I could likely get full locked rear without the c-clip trail repair hassel. Probably for less than it would cost me to have sMike put an open 8.8 under MLC.
If it sounds like I'm indecisive, it is because I am. Is locked rear of more value than getting 4.56 gearing to keep 33s on year round? Where do long/adjustable control arms come in? New tires? I'm kind of getting to the point where, especially since I have lots of spare d35 parts, I should leave it open and wait on the axle swap until I've hit some bigger issues. Like gears, DW, and tires.
At least that's what I'm thinking for this 3 minute window.
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I just figured it would be a good candidate because I thought I saw him talking about a re-gear before anyway and I didn't think it was a whole lot of money for a proper width 44.
Thanks for pointing it out. It is a great deal on a 44. about 2 months ago I would have already been arranging to pick it up. For me this discussion is more about prioritizing the next several things that need done, one of which is coming to grips with the d35 limitations.
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Mike wolf still bombs around on a chromo'd D35? whats that cost these days?
6-8hrs of labor to burn an 8.8 to a TJ plus the Artec swap kit may not be economical when paying out to have it done when you havent broken what you have yet.
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Mike wolf still bombs around on a chromo'd D35? whats that cost these days?
Brand new chromo are < $170/side but go up fast. I've found used steel for $50/set from recyclers. Stock from Napa are $150.
I have two full sets of stock shafts sitting in my barn.
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And if I recall he's locked in the rear. Aussie I believe. I could be wrong.
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i think he is 4.56 detroit locked but not sure on the locker
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Good points by all,
Just buy Moose and go wheeling. ;D
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the only way I get moose today is to paint it pink with green polka dots. Which is Mrs' way of saying "no".
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the only way I get moose today is to paint it pink with green polka dots. Which is Mrs' way of saying "no".
i can paint it for you......... :o
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That'd be pretty sweet. Would look good with the mule!
Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)ing in traffic
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the only way I get moose today is to paint it pink with green polka dots. Which is Mrs' way of saying "no".
i can paint it for you......... :o
I said "Sure, I'm sure they'd do that for you just to see me drive it"
That's when she suggested that the couch would be a good place for me to spend some time. I got the message.
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@#$%ing driveshaft squeak started on my way in. Same "precursor" sound that I had a rausch before the CV blew up. No fun has been had since the rebuild. I did hose off salt over the weekend. What should I be looking at to make sure I'm not doing something stupid (and to avoid another rebuild)?
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Probably not the same joint.
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All the joints between the t-case and the diff were replaced. Squeak is coming is in the back of vehicle. Only occurs under load. I would expect wheel bearings to make noises with any rotation. No?
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1) check your fleetpride bill to see if they actually did do both ends
2) do it in 4x4?
3) pull front shaft
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All jeeps squeak!
If they dont squeak or rattle or vibrate or leak then they arent called jeeps.
Those would be called cars!
O0
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Well... yes. Just trying to avoid redoing work that was already done.
sMike, will need to get home to check for sure, but i'm nearly positive that we did all joints (I didn't want to be back to do the pinion joint...). Will check 4w at lunch. To check shaft Us I need to lift from frame with all load off wheels, correct?
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with trans and case in N and wheels chocked the shafts have no load and you can check for relative motion between yokes that should not be there.
squeaks are usually the center pin on the CV in my experience.
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sMike:
1. Fleet did 3 joints. That is all that I counted on the shaft.
2. 4x4 stops the squeaking
3. Huh?
Other Mike: no noticeable play. Checked rear and front.
Driving at lower speed it seems to be tied more to engine RPM than speedo. shift from 1 to 2 to 3 changes frequency. That makes me less thrilled.
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Run it. Or burn it. You always have options.
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Smart guy ^^^
:)
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Smart azz is more like it.
I'm going to let it go and stop panicking. At least that's the plan. If it gets worse then I can be concerned. Right?
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Run it till it breaks
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Rebuild front shaft cv
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it,s fine ;D
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odd... had occasion to use 4wd this morning (called get it our of the driveway) and opted for low. squeak/cluck is NOT related to drive speed as much as engine speed. Ex, same rate in 2wd as 4wd low. Not sure why it showed up in 4wd low as it was not present in 4wd high. Checked several times. Should be able to get under her on Saturday once I refuel the heaters.
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Not able to make FLC event so decided to crawl under MLC. Dumb question: how much should the pinion yolk move where it enters the diff?
Basically I can't find any difference in the front or rear DS other then the front pinion yolk is visibly moving at the front diff. By moving I mean up/down/left/right not rotational. It makes the DS feel loose but if I hold the yolk stable the DS is solid. Not up to removing the skid plate today so I didn't pull the shaft out.
I'm not sure the rear is good either. Seems to have some play in the shaft but I can't figure out where. U joints not allowing any play and CV is solid. Yolk at diff not moving. Did see any movement at tcase but didn't have a great view.
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Yoke should have zero non-rotational movement. Bad pinion bearing...
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yup, loose pinion nut at best, bad pinion bearing likely as well if there's any non-rotational movement. Likely a seal leak there, and badness happens to bits inside if it gets too sloppy and parts vacate their proper homes.
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Been seeing oil after diff refills so yep to the leak. I don't recall sMike seeing metal bits in the diff before. What options here? Remove front DS to keep load off?
Wasn't planning to do gears till late spring...
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the gears still move without the DS...
beauty of unit bearings..
you dont need to re gear to fix.. just a new bearing..
not really that big of a deal, just time consuming..
I would address before it turns into a larger problem..
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yup, it needs to be investigated sooner than later, especially without a plan to regear in the immediate future.
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ya
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Couldn't he just remove the front drive shaft and inner axle shafts to hold him over for now?
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
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thats 3/4 of the work to go nowhere..
and leaves the axle housing open to crap
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I don't really see how it's that much work. If he's able to do gears soon, I would say to just do that. But if he can't until spring, it would get him by until then. Would it open the housing to crop? Yes, but it's not like anything would be moving in there. Stuff a rag in the ends of the tubes if he's really concerned about protecting the gear set he's replacing any way.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
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Fix it right or dont drive it. Its not a dd right?
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It is my DD.
I don't mind the idea of the work (I've smike was nice enough to let me see how it is done). Timing is more the issue (see opening line). As long as I don't have to get into setting backlash and such I should be able to get it over a weekend pending obtaining parts. I could pull shafts very quickly thanks to sMike being in there so much recently.
BAH.
Mark, got a spare can of gas and a book of matches?
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You cannot leave the unit bearings without a stub shaft installed. The bearings need the preload to remain functional and not come apart.
Have gas/matches.
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Remove locker and ds? That would leave the pinion attached to nothing...
Of course another 2hrs and a hammer later and the whole thing would be fixed...
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Like I said.. Once the shafts are out your talking about 30 min max to put a new pinion bearing in...
And mark is correct about the unit bearings.. I wouldn't drive a love front axle without shafts..
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this is why I will always say the best upgrade I ever bought for my Jeep was my car.. now I don't have to worry about every little squeak and if something does come up the jeep just gets parked til i have time to get to it..
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Started building a parts list and realized there are two bearing sets. I'm guessing I need to replace both sets, replace outer seal and replace shims on inner bearing. Didn't see anything like a kit to make it easy. Did I miss anything?
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outer and inner bearings / races, pinion seal
will need to replace the crush sleeve or shim the crush sleeve to reset preload. no changes to shims unless the gear set is so hosed and needs to be changed to reduce backlash to spec.
i pointed out the front axle had a little play but not terrible the first time i looked at the jeep. Mike Wolfs or Joes TJ was driving with 1/4" slop at pinion yoke. Wonder 1.0 came back with the inner race spun and grenaded the housing. i have seen and fixed it all....
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yes.. i can get you a full D30 bearing and seal kit..
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Arie, I'll get back under it tonight and get a full list of things (need battery and still torturing myself on the aveo).
sMike, I remember that. It seems worse to me now than when you pointed it out. I'm still hearing the noises I mentioned. I'm going to drop the skid and pull the DS tonight. Is that skid needed for DD? As much as I hate myself for saying this I really hope the problem is just the front pinion screwing with the DS.
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When in doubt throw a Arnold Palmer can in there for a precision spacer!!
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the skid is the crossmember that supports your transmission and Tcase, yess you need that. i think you can pull the shaft without pulling that.
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You should be able to access the bolts that hold the shaft on without removing the plate.
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Ok the tcase yolk is different than the rear. That one has bolts holding DS to tcase output. Can't find bolts for front tcase output. Disconnected front yolk. Shaft stuck in tcase.
Hints?
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/14/juzehabu.jpg)
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there are two bolt heads that i circled. 4 total.
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Crap. Can't see those from any angle unless I shove y phone in there. Those 5/16? Get them from the back?
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No way to get those out without air ratchet or something. Can't get any leverage. Not muscle in my girly hands to break them free with short 1/4 drive. 3/8 drive would get on the bolt thanks to tcase.
How bad would it be to drive without the DS in there? Might be able to get local shop to pull it for me.
Which brings me to saying "I need to listen to sMike". With front disconnected seems that the cv is shot. Much worse now and was "sloppy" with only tcase connected.
Pinion movement is more in/out. With DS disconnected I can move pinion shaft about 1/8 up/down and about 1/8 in out. Attaching DS makes it worse. Not looking good.
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Put it back together. Take it to get fixed correctly.
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A trail rig is one thing. A daily driver is not something to practice on.
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It's back together. Calling my local guy to see if he'll pull the shaft so i can get it to Fleet pride. Hope he can get it tomorrow night. I'm guessing that driving with no DS for a few miles is ok.
If I can get the turd (aveo) back up and running for less than target I will likely just gear front and rear. or at least park jeep till I can get gears done.
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You can run without the front shaft indefinitely (pinion yoke repaired). In fact, I have disco'ed the front shaft at the pinion yoke and tied it up to the frame near the upper control arm to gain eem pee gees and eliminate vibrations (sloppy splines).
Get it somewhere and get it done right. Those bolts probably have Loc-tite on them.
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2 foot extension and a wobble and you can get the yoke bolts
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My normal guy will put MLC on the lift and pull get those bolts for me. That will let me get the DS to fleet and put that problem to rest.
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pinion bearings are more pressing. you can do this for years:
I have disco'ed the front shaft at the pinion yoke and tied it up to the frame near the upper control arm to gain eem pee gees and eliminate vibrations
but the pinion still spins.
If you have a BIG socket set try to tighten the pinion nut. If you can move it without your eyeballs popping out, it's probably loose and has lost its preload. Whether it's loose or the bearings are bad/going, it's a bigish deal on a DD. Would suck to grenade the front diff on the way to work.
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If you have a BIG socket set try to tighten the pinion nut. If you can move it without your eyeballs popping out, it's probably loose and has lost its preload. Whether it's loose or the bearings are bad/going, it's a bigish deal on a DD. Would suck to grenade the front diff on the way to work.
This is on my list of things to do when it is on the lift tonight. I don't have anything big enough to fit the nut, but I know he does.
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When mine did this, the nut was not loose. I tried tightening, but the deforming nut just stripped. Maybe you will have a different result with a crush sleeve axle, being HP, mine was not.
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pinion bearings are more pressing. you can do this for years:I have disco'ed the front shaft at the pinion yoke and tied it up to the frame near the upper control arm to gain eem pee gees and eliminate vibrations
but the pinion still spins.
That's why I mentioned the repaired pinion yoke (or bearing).
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Preferred manufacturers of 4.56 R&P?
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Superior gear.
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They apparently do not make a d30/d35 4.56.
Anyone know if I need "short pinion". Not sure why my google-foo is failing, but I can't get anything definitive.
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Gearing a 35 is good money before bad IMO
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Probably. MLC has that girly i4 and an open d35 diff (for now) and spare parts. I'm sure an 8.8 or a 44 will wind up under her eventually. For now the 4.56 will make life a bit nicer for road and the blues at Rausch.
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you need the short pinion. Also called TJ pinion (vs CJ pinion)
4.56 are available for d30 and d35. Look on forums like Pirate4x4 and Jeepforum for venders that sell gears. They usually have pretty good prices (you should be looking at sub $500 for both r&p and install kits).
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i have had good luck with Motive gear.
quality economy gears
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http://stores.dmrtransmission.com/contact-us/
My buddy Dan, can usually get pretty compettitve pricing on stuff. He said email is best, tell him I sent you.
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http://www.rc4x4.org/rcforum/index.php/topic,21125.0.html
opps wrong gears honey, now i have to buy an 8.8 and artec swap kit!
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Yeah. She got ahead of that. "This is just gears not that ford thing right?"
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Since MLC is parked waiting from new gears (and M4 TLC) I thought I do some removal of surface rust. Then plan I've concocted is to smooth the rust with 200/400 paper then cover it with black rustoleum converter. The spots are all smaller then a quarter and the paint is already shot so I'm not concerned about looking good as much as saving parts like hood and grill before they look like my fenders.
Anything else I should consider?
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200 grit isn't going to touch rust.
Wire wheel on a grinder, etching primer, paint.
If it's bubbling that means it's coming through from the back side and your wire wheel will get you a through hole and black crusty mess. Be prepared with bondo...
Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)ing in traffic
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sandblaster...
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You can't burn it w a sandblaster...
Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)ing in traffic
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No? Depends on your media... ;D
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Sigh. Back to the fire based solutions.
These are not bubbling. Bubbling areas are slated for complete replacement (fenders and back corners).
Trying to avoid a complete repaint. At least until I have some part replaced.
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let it rust
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Opted for rust stop crap. Not able to warm the barn up enough to prime/paint. Not super interested in brining body parts in the house.
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Good news, on a suggestion from Aussie Locker Bill, I actually opened the front diff. No metal in the diff fluid at all. All the teeth on the ring looked good, the pinion teeth seems good too (hard to see, but even shine through full rotation of ring). I wouldn't expect "just a bad bearing" to make the amount of noise I'm hearing. I would expect it to be more like a wheel bearing grind type sound.
[/size]
[/size]Managed to get the hood off to bring inside to do the hood paint "right". Right is relative since all I'm trying to do is stop the rust. It will be uglier then it was when I started when I put it back on MLC.
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Rust like cancer... Cut it out or it will come back....
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Then do a nice mural on that hood. :P
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Inside means grind/sand till the metal shows. No point in carrying it inside to do it halfway. Just not stressing on the paint being pretty yet.
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Got front diff cover back on. Thanks to Mark for some quick advice.
Hood is now rust free. Did the inside stuff first. Hope to make the outside a little nicer. The "flat" spots where the worst rust was will likely show a bit. Not worth the effort if putty. Should have primed, painted and back on MLC by next weekend.
Any reason to replace the tie down loop on the hood? Snapped when removing it.
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So getting ready to do top of hood when I realized that the area under the hinge (where hinge bolts to hood) is in painted on hood and hinge. I cleaned rust/corrosion off there. Prime and paint it? Or do I need more drastic protection?
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Kill rust now.
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Rust is gone. Nice shiny metal. How to keep it that way...
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Not a typical area of concern. Prime and paint.
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Semi-gloss black will definitely look different. Looks nice on the table though. The rattle can smell ... Not the best thing I've done in the house recently.
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remind me what gears MLC has?
http://rochester.craigslist.org/pts/4292975179.html
$100 would be a good deal.
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I can deliver stuff like this for you, when needed.
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4.10 but should go with 4.56 to be nice to her little motor and clutch (Rausch will kill my clutch before too long). The 4.56 move was planned for early summer but may happen sooner
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Although...
4.10 with 35 would mean losing 5th gear. A new tcase with a better ratio (4:1 or atlas with 5.2:1) would actually be better.
Too many options!!!
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This sounds right up your alley! Terra-low NP231J with SYE. Just need to ask about input shaft spline count. You should have 21 as opposed to 23 for the AX15. Though it can be exchanged.
http://www.rc4x4.org/rcforum/index.php/topic,21260.0.html
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I saw that. Since the 1k I just dropped on an engine for the aveo is no longer needed I may be "in that market".
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And I'm driving through Altoona in two weeks.
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I have a 4:1 231 that I would be happy to get rid of..
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Ooo. 231 is what's in the TJ now right?
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Yes.
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Oh the wife is not going to like where this is going.
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Just blame it on me. She'll have another name already to go. ;D
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Already did. She still likes arie though.
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Aries input will need to be swapped also since coming from 6cyl
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but i only want 800
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I may be into you for more than that for other needs.
I'll need to hold off till I get everything back in the road.
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It's still in my jeep and has been for 18 months since I've wanted to sell...
Haven't bought anything new as of yet..
I just need a good reason to pull it...
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So I decided to heat up the barn and get some work done. I happened to look under MLC and there was water under rear tcase. Looked up there and there was ice in cv. Gave ice time to melt and disconnected DS from diff. How much "clunk" is acceptable in cv?
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Zero.
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No ujoint should have any clunk. CVs included. Rotational is bad joint and lateral in a CV is the centering pin/ socket and requires Real Work (tm)
Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)ing in traffic
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This is the same shaft that was repaired by fleet pride in Nov. I wonder if they'll cover it. Especially since its been parked for 2 weeks.
This makes me wonder if the pinion bearing "needs" replaced or if this stupid cv has been the problem the while time.
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Fleetpride is pretty sweet!
fuckers.
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And I get to pay them full price for a do over. I'm not thrilled about that. But it could be worse.
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yeah it could be worse - you could go back to the same place that fucked it up and give them more money to fuck it up again.
In case you can't tell these guys have burned me more often than not and I'd love to burn their goddamn building down because they are incompetent fuckwads on their best day.
Cook Brothers on Mt. Reed has been better for me but I think it was Nick or Chad that had some issues there once... Nobody good left, it seems.
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Was debating cook. Does seem that there are very few options.
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Cook brothers wanted to rape me to make my custom driveshaft in the truck for like $750. Fleet pride hooked me up and did a simple good job on it for $350
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Vic (OEM) still doing this stuff anymore?
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Nope.
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CV ball is $32.
(2) ujoints @ $10ea
done
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I probably should learn to do this myself. Is the ball "Napa" sourceable?
I'm assuming I don't need the balance with every repair...
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fuck napa..
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CV ball is $32.
(2) ujoints @ $10ea
done
done - if and only if the pin is straight and not worn.
hopefully with a new one it's fine. but it was fleetpride so it was probably cockeyed and unlubed from the word 'go'
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fuck napa..
Walking distance from my house. Can't make it to Irondequoit for a few days. What other pickup options are there for the far east?
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hopefully with a new one it's fine. but it was fleetpride so it was probably cockeyed and unlubed from the word 'go'
Short of disassembly how does one verify? It's in the living room right next to me…
Joints are greased as evidenced from the amount coming out from under the caps.
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disassembly, the pin and ball are what's in the middle that keep everything in alignment.
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Might was well take it apart. What's the worst that happens, they charge me more for doing some of their work?
"They" is undefined since my backup plan has not solidified.
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Use the internet as a tool. Look up how to rebuild it I'm sure there is a write up. This way you know how to do it and know it is done right. Slowly work your way out of relying on people to do work for you.
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Thanks Nick. Been looking for an "easy" u-joint practice. Actually got to pick Eric's and sMike's brains when Eric lost a DS yolk at Rausch. This seems simple except for the cv part of it. no need to disassemble the caliper/hub/etc. I might take it apart just for the education...
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As "easy" as that seems to be, I think I should practice on a spare shaft, not one I plan to drive on later that day. I'm hoping to get it into competent hands tomorrow.
Going to move MLC around a bit just to be 100% positive that there are no other noises. Will put newly uglified hood on. I hope to have her back on the road very soon.
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Put the hood back in last night. I don't have any good "before" pics so you need to trust me that this is an improvement. And by improvement I mean "look ma! No rust (on the hood)"
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/11/suqudymu.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/11/y4yhu4us.jpg)
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Still needs mural. Or flames. ;D
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Your idea of flames and the ones that would be legal and safe to drive around with are likely different.
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looks good
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Thanks! I really like the reduced glare when she's on the road at night. Which is a huge improvement. Now that all four wheels are powered she's happy (and quiet-ish).
Mike Mike will yell at me, but I couldn't make Cook work with the distance and hours so I went back to Fleet. This new set up has "bigger" U-joints and the "ball thing" is covered. They did give me a discount …
But… Mark, bring the matches and a "get out of jail free" card …
The stupid wipers aren't working. Fuses are good. Power at the fuse box. haven't pulled the column to test the switch, but I get voltage through the fuse with switch on, but not with it off. I'm assuming I have to remove the vented panel directly i front of the windshield to get to the motor. Other "easy" things to check?
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Betting frozen motor. Try jiggling the arms to see if they'll break free.
To replace the motor, IIRC it is 5 cowl screws to access the area. Easy.
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Tried moving motor with wipers active. Nothing.
Might not have gotten it warm enough to get ice out of the core.
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"Bigger" joints in the same yokes? Shenanigans.
Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)ing in traffic
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Bigger is relative. The cap and spindle are the same size but the body (cross) is different. The fist set in the double matched the diff u. These new ones seem to have larger bodies. The exposed parts of the double look beefier this time. There is some type of boot in there so it could be an illusion. That boot wasn't there before.
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Made it to work with no noise. Front diff was cold so it looks like I didn't screw that up. No drips from front of diff (back has drip from pinon seal). Hood did not fly off at 65 so I have proof that I can put a bolt on properly. Still need to deal with that pinion bearing though...
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MLC parked in sun. Wipers work.
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Getting MLC ready for a longerish trip to Ft Bragg. Checked oil. Smells gassy. Engine is a rebuild with only 40K on it. Should be darn near perfect. I'm hoping its from sitting and hard starts. Will have oil changed Monday.
Put my worn out (but still legal) 33 ATs on. MLC much happier. Check 30s and it looks like I may have 2 with flat spots. Going to have my guy put them on his machine when he does the oil.
Managed to break the battery strap bolts. Made it to the local <redacted> to get new bolts. too dark to put them in until tomorrow.
Front diff holding fluid and cold after driving distance. I guess I figured out the RTV and fill. Was a little worried that I didn't get enough fluid in the diff. sMike makes it look easy.
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there isnt much with a dana30 i dont make easy lol
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MLC did give you a fight with the ball joints. But yeah. It took me the same amount of time to eat the housing and cover clean as it too you to put the locker in. In my defense it was my first time. And the wheels were on the ground.
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MLC needs new hood, grill and bumper.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/24/ybazu2y2.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/24/epu7a9uh.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/24/ge8epupy.jpg)
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That almost looks like the back of a buggy?
Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)ing in traffic
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Indeed. Troys buggy decided to snuggle with MLC.
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30 minutes of sledge hammer work and things are safer if not pretty.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/24/da7ytedu.jpg)
Safety catch is engaging properly. Grill is pretty close to correct position. Not sure how much headlights moved.
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You got comp on that thing? Out some hair and blood on it..... ;D
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Not sure. Need to check. I could just take one out tomorrow on the way to work. :-)
I did verify the the coverage I do have wasn't effected by off roading accidents. So it may be covered.
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At least you got the hood all painted up nice :)
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That was practice!
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Called insurance agent. Full coverage (comp/coll). Need to deal with company next. I may get away with this...
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Maybe they will total it and you can buy one with a 6cyl.......
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smike can buy it salvage, drop an LS in it and wheel it for 6 months.
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Or do I risk the $500 for that Cherokee and hope it has a running i6 that just needs some wire?
On a different note, it is looking like I have a good chance of getting fenders out of the deal (right and left bent middle of fender). Was planning on the GenRight tubes. Would 4 or 6 be better? I was thinking 6 as that would cover more of the tire for reduced spray to the windshield. I'm unlikely to go wider than 12.5
It seems silly to save $50 for the 4. Unless I'm missing something.
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Your rear flares are 4" wide.
I don't think the 6" look right with our "little" tires.
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I don't think the 6" look right with our "little" tires.
Sounds like a reason to go bigger ;D
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I don't think the 6" look right with our "little" tires.
Sounds like a reason to go bigger ;D
35's were in the plan for this year... And if you really want silly, take a look at the pics of MLC with the 30s.
Full set of flares may actually happen (rears only add $250 to cost). I'm just thinking that 6" would prevent the "blackout curtain" of mud I experienced this weekend.
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Or do I risk the $500 for that Cherokee and hope it has a running i6 that just needs some wire?
No, WJ engine wont work.
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There isn't much that prevents the mud from splashing on your windows. Flares only good when tires are pointed straight ahead. And even then, without mud flaps...
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My google-foo is not turning up other manufacturers of tube fenders that completely replace stock fenders. Who else should I be looking at?
Ryan, I can't seem to find blinker/sidelight on the lifetime site. What should I be looking for?
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Google-foo adjusted.
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Eagle eye lights.
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Well, looks like I have full coverage with a company that "gets" insanity.
It also looks like Mark is doubly insane and is willing to help with a few projects for MLC beyond just making her pretty.
First up tube fenders. I'm surprised at how much some bent tubing costs. granted there's some machinery behind it. In order of interest ...
These seem to have a bit more "flexibility" but I'll need to make mounts. http://www.trailtubes.com/collections/fenders-flares/products/front-rear-flared-fenders-for-cj-yj-tj-lj-xj-zj
Scroll down a bit ... Similar to the Trail Tubes but cheaper ... http://www.blackwidowgear.com/jeep.html
These are basically a Gen Right copy. Full kit with mounting. http://www.stoutfabrication.com/diy-tj-flat-fenders-set-of-2-1/
these are zero flare, have thinner tubes, but are a full kit for a low price. I could add flare pretty simply. http://www.bluetorchfab.com/Product/719/BTF-Jeep-TJ-Front-Tube-Fenders-DIY-Kit.aspx
Sourced grill already. Have a line on a hood or two. Will likely be investing in some Lifetime LED up front. Just need to verify what I need and how much needs to change in the electronics.
Trying to figure out what to do for bumpers. I'm thinking simple bar with receiver or mounts for D. Will be adding bumper mounted lights and (hopefully) winch. I think something simple and straight is the right start. I found a few (rusty's and blue torch) that seem right. I think I could make it pretty cheap since I'm basically looking for a slightly beefed up stock (just the C) but don't think I want to deal with getting a powder coat on it.
Although I could do a bumper and the fenders at that same time...
Thoughts?
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All of those are DIY kits- they are made for fabricators that have a lot of time to save a couple bucks. your going to end up paying someone more to assemble and fit than just getting bolt on.
340$ for these assembled and painted google find 1
http://www.quadratec.com/products/12508_301X_PG.htm
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3" flare for another 100$
http://www.quadratec.com/products/12508_300X_PG.htm
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I manage to convince Mark to work on the fab. I haven't done welding since college, but I have a few other things that need done. Fenders are less of an emergency so I thought, what the heck.
Was looking at the bolt ons but to get the 4" flare (daily driver) I was up at Gen Right pricing ($550). I liked the idea of the trail tubes "cut to length" which would let me play with 6" to 4" idea. That I could get 2 set of fronts or a full front/rear for less than a single set of Gen Right was just a bonus.
Someone recently said "you need to start doing these things yourself". I thought the flares would be a good start to get into fab. I'd rather not practice with important parts.
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Be aware of the inner fender detail. Some of the more expensive kits include the inners, some use your current inners, and others omit it completely. Probably more of an issue with hi-line stuff.
Also not a fan of tube bumpers. Like the ARB or Hanson stuff. Rock Hard has a decent stubby unit.
Beat your bent one back and trim the ends. Good-to-go.
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buy these and be done...
http://www.tntcustoms.com/jeep_tube_fender/3flare/TJ/LJ.aspx
you keep your inner fender, gain wheel well cleanace, and are bolt and go...
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My opinion put the money into performance stuff like axle and tires. Bumpers and fenders don't really do much
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cant argue that...
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I'm fighting the "I told you not to break it" syndrome. I suggested gears and tires... not happening. Fenders make her happy since I'm killing rust induced holes.
It looks like bolt on is the overriding suggestion. I'll take it back the the planning on that.
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i have someone lined up looking for your 4.10 gear sets if the time comes.
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Also not a fan of tube bumpers. Like the ARB or Hanson stuff. Rock Hard has a decent stubby unit.
Beat your bent one back and trim the ends. Good-to-go.
Tube bumpers are out. not interested. I did want to get shackle mounts since the tie off is ... leaving. The bolt on to my factory bumper makes me nervous. I figured she was on board with "better" so ...
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i have someone lined up looking for your 4.10 gear sets if the time comes.
Now I can make a winning argument! Let me see if I can get this to fly.
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The hook on the front of your Jeep is as attached as any. It bolts through the bumper and into the frame with two sizable (1/2"?) bolts.
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using those as a point for winch steering fails them- just to note.
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You are ruining my plan!
Get new "pretty" bumper with shackle mounts. Move hook to rear bumper. Have Troy pull the rear bumper off at WP. Buy new rear bumper with tire carrier that "needs" 35" tires to work properly ...
See? there's a plan. I lost a battle but the war... focus on the war...
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Trail Tube fender uses factory inner.
If I decide to be an idiot i will probably go with those.
I'm still considering using my brain and buying bolt on.
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Current bumper preference is Rusty's with shackle mounts ... http://www.rustysoffroad.com/jeep-bumpers/rustys-jeep-bumpers/rustys-bumper-trail-54-wide-front-tj-lj-wranglers-rubicon-unlimited.html
Not sure how that is a bad idea. Simple. Inexpensive.
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I think you have lost the war many times over :)
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I'm a guy. i lost it the minute I was born. But I can still attempt to delude myself.
-
Ryan, to the eagle eyes need a special relay to function as a blinker? I don't think so but other "kits" need special relays. Nothing is listed on your site so I'm thinking no...
-
Could need a resistor.
-
Or an electronic flasher relay.
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Yes, Mark has a better idea.
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Here is the Mrs approved plan:
Repair damage
Grill/Hood -- used from Harrison $275 post shipping.
DIY tube fender from Black widow -- $270 (all four fender/flares not just front)
Hood tie downs -- $16 because I went with pins. Don't ask.
Bumper -- $317.67 shipped (AtoZ Fab front bracket + clevis, rear builders kit, tire carrier kit + spindle upgrade)
"Upgrade"
Ruff Stuff Lower control arms -- $209.95 shipped (order 61434)
Lower control arm mounts -- $60 for pair Rusty's RC-LCM55
M4 time for LCA -- Mike?
Rear fender/flare -- part of trail tube kit
Lifetime LED Eagle eyes -- all marker/blinkers up front $80 including relay
Lifetime LED headlights -- not sure which one, but looks like $320 for the pair
That's the plan anyway.
running order info
$896.83 total
-----------------
$225.00 Grill/hood
$209.95 Ruff Stuff order 61434
$317.67 AtoZ Fab order 7543
$275(ca) Black Widow Gear
$ 78.27 Rustys Offroad 100034074
$ 15.94 Summit 9240512
-
Looks like Black Widow Gear is identical to Trail Tubes and cheaper...
-
i like this parts list.
you are lucky that you will go straight to ruffstuff control arms....we all wasted a ton of money on crap. 1.25" heim on one end and polly on the other is the way to go. i would recommend making them adjustable on both ends (with LH and RH threads) for adjustment purposes.
regular link mounts will be good for the LCA mounts on the axles. get rid of the cam adjuster
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Looks like Black Widow Gear is identical to Trail Tubes and cheaper...
And i can get the sheet metal precut... this makes sense. can't find much about them online though... Will check them out tonight.
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I've never seen an adjustable poly end. I disagree with Spencer on this anyway because you'll have to keep track of two jamb nuts that will loosen and then the tube will turn and mess with any kind of setting you had. They aren't that hard to drop for adjustment.
$0.02
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sMike, I'm not finding the right kind of control arm mounts. All seem to have slotted adjusting holes and no "skid" type reinforcement. The closest I found are these from Rusty's. http://www.rustysoffroad.com/jeep-suspension/jeep-suspension-control-arms-accessories/jeep-control-arm-accessories/rustys-control-arms-jeepspeed-heavy-duty-lower-axle-mounts-pair.html
Are those right for the job?
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ya,
i think ruff stuff sells them too
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Mrs approved front AND rear bumpers as long as rear has receiver to tow utility trailer. I think she's coming around.
-
44" or 54" front bumper? Not sure it will really matter but only get to purchase once.
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I like the stubby bumpers myself. It gives you some more options when climbing something that you need approach angle. It also gives your stock fenders no chance of staying straight.
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You said "stock fender". Hehehe.
I was thinking 44 to. Just didn't know of there was a real reason to go 54.
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Im with mark stubby is better
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Ryan is a trouble maker.
Going with AtoZ Fab kits for front and rear+tire carrier. Going 2x4x44 on the front. Lower outer 45* for a 2x2 flat on the end. Rear will be 2x5x54. Same plan for the ends. 3/16" on the bumpers.
Those eagle eye LEDs from Lifetime are very bright. Much brighter than the default bulbs. Needing to rethink placement options to avoid blinding other drivers. Current plan was front and side on top of fender. I'm thinking I need to put the side marker under the fender or at least not pointing right into the windows of cars. Either way, plan is to make some bolt on mounts from 16ga steel.
Shipping on fenders from Black Widow Gear is a PITA. Not sure if it is a CA to US tariff but the cost is getting stupid. May actually be cheaper to pay for Trail Tube and buy more 16ga sheet. Hope to have this nailed down tonight.
-
All orderable parts ordered. Deliveries should start soon.
sMike, what's the estimate for front axle LCA mount welding and LCA installation?
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are the arms assembled, whats the link again?
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Ruff stuff arms. I believe they are assembled. http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/SFLEX-LF.html Second to last point "Coems welded"
-
looks like they weld the bushing side, but leave the rod end bung un welded so you can cut the link as needed and weld.
-
I guess I'll need to ask you to add that to the estimate as well.
I'm willing to mess with non-critical stuff like bumpers, but LCA seems pretty darn important...
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PM sent
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Shipment #1. LCA from rough stuff. Fully welded. Post man was not happy about carrying this package.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/08/6e9ygaqu.jpg)
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Those are nice.
Hannah, keep saving your pennies!!
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Hannah, they paint up decent too. I went with "tractor paint" (really, used for farm machinery) since it has more liberal temp ant dandy dry. 100grit and brake cleaners to prep, 4 coats etching primer 2 coats paint. Put together the look like this.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/09/pemu4uza.jpg)
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I like the orange, although I'm thinking light pink when I save up enough for mine :)
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That have hot pink!! I'm not sure what tractors come in pink but they have it.
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Bumper stuff arrived
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/11/e6ema2e8.jpg)
I could just put the mounting plate on and have a huge upgrade over stock.
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im really confused what that is other than the receiver
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Consider it a base for building a custom bumper. 3/16" formed to provide mounts to stock locations, winch mount, then you dress it however you like - rect tube, round tube, stinger, whatever.
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Top piece is mounting plate for front bumper. Mounting holes for various frame and winch plates. Slots for clevis.
Two bags are tire carrier HW.
Left two right,
Receiver 2"
Rear clevis
Trailer chain tabs
Not sure on long piece with two holes
Bumper to frame mounting HW
Bag o' bolts.
AtoZ site has decent pics. Will be studying to make sure we get it right.
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Link to rear bumper ... http://www.atozfabrication.com/store/product.php?productid=16178&cat=275&page=1
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Not sure on long piece with two holes
Chain hook mounting plate.
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Then what are the two single hole tabs?
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Underside frame mount.
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Ah. Didn't notice that.
This should be fun.
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I would strongly recommend something like this rear support brace (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bumper-Bracket-Jeep-Wrangler-TJ-YJ-CJ-Frame-Mount-Rear-Chassis-4x4-DIY-Fab-NEW-/190671376979). The rear crossmember isn't particularly strong.
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Based on the mess I'm in with the front bumper bolts we are a ways from caring about the back bumper.
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i used a breaker bar to bust em free then pulled out the impact.
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Apparently my tools lack the … testicular fortitude … to remove the front bumper bolts. I keep popping the catch on the ratchet. Doesn't help that the stupid torx piece is 3/8 and I don't have a 3/8 to 1/2 adapter. I did manage to get the 4 upper bolts to the point that I know they will come out. Two lower … meh.
Every. Single. One. Of. The. Fender. Bolts. Spins. SoaB. Every one of them. My next move involves a sawsall. Or a car crusher.
I'm open to suggestions.
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i used a breaker bar to bust em free then pulled out the impact.
I thought that might be the right way to go. My torx are 3/8, impact is 1/2. I'm hoping TSC or Lowes will have the needed 1/2 impact torx.
I don't even want to think about the back …
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using those as a point for winch steering fails them- just to note.
Yup!
what he said!
And breaks your cable after tearing your frame apart.
Just sayin.
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Front tow hooks I speak of
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Front tow hooks I speak of
Gone. Those were the easy bolt to get out. Being replaced with the front kit plus clevis through the tube.
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I used an adapter from harbour freight
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LCA mounts arrived. Need time with sMike to get that wrapped up.
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Arie called the frame issue from the hook.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/12/8y6u7a9e.jpg)
Not sure how well the pull on the hole shows. Probably a 1/4 higher at the back hole.
Managed to break the lower bumper mount bolt on the passenger side and the sway bar cover bolt on the driver. Not willing to try the seat bar mounts but will save those for when it is time to mount new front. Last thin I need is to not have a drivable MLC.
With plate higher you can see troy's diff a bit easier....
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/12/peqyhavu.jpg)
Restricting myself to flare removal before I have to drill out every bolt on this thing...
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Sway bar bolts are smaller. You're guaranteed to break at least one.
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Took a brake from accident repairs to address the "no rear brake" problem. Used "new" shoes from Matt (when I picked up a spare d35 and parts) and completely cleaned the passenger rear. With the new shoes I have parking brake. Driver side will require purchase of parts but there is still 1/2 shoe left (pass side was close to bare metal).
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Brakes should be replaced alike and together.
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Was kind of waiting to see where you were headed with the new brand. I figure I'll completely redo both sides and front with all new parts once the decision is made there.
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New brand?
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Thread "free brakes" in "Arie's Place".
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its an entry level full ceramic service grade pad...
no expected lead time or change over..
you don't want a ceramic on a SUV or truck application.. regular ol' semi met works just dandy.
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Ok. I'll firm up the parts on the others thread.
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its an entry level full ceramic service grade pad...
no expected lead time or change over..
you don't want a ceramic on a SUV or truck application.. regular ol' semi met works just dandy.
Why do I not want ceramic on suv/trucks? I hate semi-metallic because they leave so much damn black dust on the wheels.
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semi mets handle heat better than ceramic
causes the pad to glaze over and you in fact loose brake performance.
if you look at OE friction material it’s all semi met once you enter the SUV truck category...
yes there is less brake dust with ceramics.. there is also less performance from a SUV/truck point of view.
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think about it this way...
you have a metal vs. ceramic grill, or pot
metal heats up and cools down
ceramic heats up and stays warms for hours...
brakes create heat, you want to dissipate that heat as soon as possible.. why have a friction material that holds in heat and can warp rotors/cause issues?
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That seems like a design flaw... what is the point of ceramics if they don't manage heat dissipation well?
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Has to do with vehicle weight and rotating mass..
Smaller wheels and less weight make for a better platform.
Plus your lexus doesn't want dirty wheels..
Ceramics work.. they are not PURE ceramic, but they work best when paired with high dollar rotors that can take the heat.
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new lower control arm brackets welded on with some M4 skids
new arms in
front bumper bolts fixed
needs lower shock barpin bushings replaced- they have 1/2" of play
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sMike, no sign of DW with 100mi today. Still going to look at the BPE stuff though.
Question: any reason I can't put in posts for the seat mounts instead of using bolts?
Explanation: I broke 3 bolts on the passenger seat. Was able to remove all but one. I've drilled it, but will most likely need to replace the nut thing in the floor. BUt that will likely just result in everything seizing up again. I figured, drill out the nut thing, run weld the bolt head UNDER the floor, then use a locking nut inside. Cut excess bolt above the nut and it will still be low profile. I'm actually think about about this for all the through floor stuff since I'm getting ready to start pulling everything off to address surface rust.
Thoughts?
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i read that twice and have no idea what your asking or talking about lol sorry
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Instead of nut under floor (welded outside tub) put bolt head under floor leaving stud to mount seat too.
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Drill, re-tap, use grease or never seize on the bolts on reinstalling. I've been through this. It won't seize up again, took 10+ years of never getting removed to seize up the first time.
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A bit o' progress.
Grill straightened to the point of putty covering the rest if the dents. (http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/24/u5atyby5.jpg)
Working on straightening the new-to-me hood rear cross support.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/24/purehyva.jpg)
I figure another 3 hours before I get to the temp sensitive stuff.
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Never posted pics of the new LCA and smike's add to the lower mounts.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/26/rynyne6u.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/26/be6u4yqa.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/26/7ubaqepa.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/26/5u4y5a2u.jpg)
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Nice. Why put the heim down?
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why not? whats it matter?
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It doesn't really. It'll see a little more rock rash down there, that's all.
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Spent some time learning how to make smoke and sparks...
More pics before it goes on.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/30/8emujega.jpg)
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IMHO, he laid down some very nice welds! Lots of wire burned today. I'd guesstimate close to 8 foot of bead. 8)
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Progress is moving in the right direction
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Not to be a smart aleck, but it was at least 8'. 44x2 tube to mount. 6x4+4 for the ends. 10" around each clevis 3 times so 60" for those. So that's 172" or just over 14'
Now how many "do it again" do we need to add?
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Plenty of practice!
Let's see some results :)
Tapatalking in traffic
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Well, they are just as ugly today as they were yesterday. It was my first time so be nice.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/31/y3uda2ur.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/31/ynejynyz.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/31/py3e7une.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/31/gebederu.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/31/3a7age4y.jpg)
Priming starts after lunch.
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And we have primer grey.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/31/pyqeqezy.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/31/gy2yzusa.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/31/ujysaqy2.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/31/gyhuna8a.jpg)
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Bumper painted but frame not ready. Sandblasting issues. More operator but the problem is still no ability to get rust off… yet.
"New-to-me" seats from Combatmedic in place. They are lower. I can actually see the gauges through the wheel. I think a bit of tube steel will fix it.
Photos sometime when I am less likely to throw a phone through a windshield.
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Photos
Combatmedic provided seats
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/05/gaqenaru.jpg)
Freshly blacked frame ends (this isn't pretty but it is black)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/05/2eryquhe.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/05/7u7y5e5y.jpg)
Patient bumper all painted and ready to install
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/05/ubeqanen.jpg)
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She ready for a trip to big dogs?
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Eh .. No. Fenders needed. Hood and grill still in progress. And tires.need tires. Had a flat this morning.
And then there's the whole "sell a jeep before the big trip" issue. Some people.
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What size tires?
Got 5 on wheels for you..
-
I was planning on moving to 35s.
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;D
http://www.fingerlakes4x4.org/modules/smf/index.php?topic=2969.0
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Tempting. I've got an option if 5 new GY MTR mounted etc a couple hundred lower. And I might get shot if I add yet another set of wheels to my collection.
Speaking of that ... What do you do with the castoffs? Scrap? A few look to be nearly rusted through...
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Wheels? If it is just steel with no rubber, bring them over and toss them into the scrap pile.
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Rubber needs recycled. I have purchased 3 sets of four. I'm going to stop the swapping an stick to one common size.
Now if I could find one more aluminum disk...
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<inset swearing> nutsert things!!!
But it is on. (http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/05/yhymuduz.jpg)
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nice!
-
The way the hood is bent, it makes me think that it's a CJ.
-
the hood will be "unbent" soon. Hopefully. That or I'm going to lose it. My mind, not the jeep. new fixable hood was delivered via "wing delivery" Sunday.
-
Quick status before I actually "work" tonight.
Fenders arrived.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/10/evaheru3.jpg)
Final putty coats on second grill and hood.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/10/6e5uqy5e.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/10/bugesuje.jpg)
Should be finishing repairs in the next week or so.
-
MLC's new shoes are here. Need to look for a wheel that is closer the the disks or I need to go back to the steels (where I will still have to buy a new wheel for spare).
Weekend is going to be busy:
1. Finish grill/hood
2. Fix brakes... again... and right this time
3. Start loosening all the bolts
Looks like a busy week too:
1. Fender fab
2. Grill/Hood install
3. Rear bumper fab
4. Rear tire carrier fab
5. Tires
-
i have a spare shallow BS TJ wheel 20$ out back
-
MLC is going under the knife tonight. All parts at Mark's. Hood and grill repair/paint done.
Attaching the build sheet for the fenders.
-
Progress. Old grill out. New grill in.
During
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/15/3e2e9a6e.jpg)
You can't see how the old grill is twisted in this comparison shot.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/15/4e9ujyga.jpg)
And bolted but no headlights. (http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/15/napegenu.jpg)
Fenders start tomorrow.
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And big thanks to Mark. Space and tools and spare bolts.
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Something like progress tonight.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/16/ma6upuvy.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/16/jase7u9a.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/16/uzu8yvu9.jpg)
And then there were tires.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/16/4ubavyge.jpg)
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BAH! No large progress last night. Cut mounting straps. Tentatively figured out "how this mess works" (I think that's pretty close to Mark's phrasing. Bled on the metal a little. Threw ball for Mark's dog.
but...
Mark pulled the OBDII codes and we have the trifecta of "burn it" + one instance of "burn it real good". Looking for hints.
p0442, 455, 456 -- evap leak in small, medium, and large. Horray! I fail emissions! Bite me.
p0202 indicating a short or failure of injector 2 control.
Any quick tips on what to look for? sMike, that injector two thing... possible cause for engine skip under load at 2krpm?
-
short of failure of injector control- means the connector is shot
evap leak means cracked rubber hoses on canister
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While you all were driving to Big Dogs Mark and I used his new toys.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/24/jugy8eme.jpg)
5.5" flare leave 1" of "sidewall bulge" exposed. Give spray coverage without looking too silly. We had to remanufacture way too much of the fender kit. But we did it. I really like the way it is turning out. Hope to get full welds and skins tomorrow.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/24/heqyvaza.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/24/4e6upeve.jpg)
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Nice!
Tapatalking in traffic
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The fender tubes are welded. I'm not a passable welder by a wide margin, but it went much better this time. Mark knocked off some grinding while I took pics. Hoping to get sheet on them tomorrow.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/25/unatu2y6.jpg)
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It's looking "right" to me. Sheet not welded but close enough for some pics.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/26/za3yja5u.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/26/u2aparaj.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/26/zunezyry.jpg)
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Very nice upgrade and great learning experience!
Tapatalking in traffic
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I'm just jealous of the new rubber
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Sheet got welded. Sheet got ground. There are three options
1. I suck at welding
2. I suck at grinding
3. I suck at welding and grinding.
I'm going with #3
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flat black paint is god's gift to people who can't weld or grind to save their lives.
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Hey no worries.
We all started somewhere.
Keep it up.
Looking good.
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Thanks. I took another look at it this morning and I'm actually pretty happy with it. The warts are all first timer things. I'm sure sMike and all you other guys could knock it off much better, but ... I did it. That's part of the point.
Mark and I are starting the rears Thursday and should have things on the road by Sat evening. I'm sure he has a few good stories for tonight... I'm packing house stuff.
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She's starting to look like a jeep again!
Front fenders mounted. Hood mounted. Holes for hood pins drilled. One headlight set up (wrong one in the other box).
Tomorrow is all about getting her in the road. Hope to have hood pins, head lights and eagle eye blinkers done. After that I'll wore up running lights.
Rear fenders aren't started. Not sure on mounting. Don't really need them though. At least not right now.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/02/7aju5yhy.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/02/9egy8uhe.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/02/e4age5as.jpg)
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sweet
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I'm impressed with your motivation to tackle a big project like this. Definitely something that would be been overwhelming for when I first started doing car work and modifications.
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Thanks. Ask Mark though … I've panicked a few times. Having him right there to bail me out has been a HUGE plus. Couldn't have done it without him.
I will say, that I'm much more comfortable "beating her into submission" now than I was when we started. The "BFH" solution has been used quite a few times already.
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I hope you guys are gaining a respect for hours of labor!
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I hope you guys are gaining a respect for hours of labor!
and hunching over with a welder, grinder, bfh, wrench, etc.
Getting old blows. This is just proving how much it blows.
BTW, I will never question your reluctance to build fenders or bumpers again. Ever. I've learned a ton, but next time genright gets my cash.
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"We can try that" or "it's only metal" has been uttered more than once. It does bring a whole new perspective to the time expended to work metal.
And old, no matter how fast or slow you get there, "blows"!
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other phrases we have abused…
"There's of wire plenty left on the spool."
"There are still flap disks."
"I'm just going to hit <random part of fender> with a rock, right?"
"It's my first time so it doesn't need to be perfect."
"hmmm… that doesn't seem right."
"There's still more in the pile…"
"This looked much simpler online"
I dont' think ANY round tube based project it a good "learn how to" project.
But I'd do it again. Just with a different source for the product. and not with fenders.
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Lots of touch up paint is needed. It almost wasn't worth doing much more than primer before assembly. I'm sure it isn't that bad but it looks ... Like it needs paint.
Some LIfetime LED illumination. More planned for tomorrow. Need to hard wire markers still. Need to acquire the right blinker relay too.
Hood pins are in. Still need to cover old latch mounts on hood. Very happy with how the hood looks.
Actually I'm very happy with the whole thing. Yes it could be better, but I learned a ton and think the result is much better than it should be thanks to Mark's help and everyone's input.
Here are some pics from tonight.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/03/2uta2une.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/03/a8y6umev.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/03/8y6avajy.jpg)
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Looks great man, nice work.
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Hey, we only improve our skills by pushing ourselves beyond the comfort zone. Nice job.
And that Mark guy you speak of... he's not too bad either.
You'll never forget your first big project and the friends that helped. Enjoy!
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You'll never forget your first big project and the friends that helped.
Truer words are hard to come by.
Tapatalking in traffic
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You'll even remember the guys that start helping but fall asleep in the drivers seat at 2 am while you continue a motor swap.
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35s on MLC actually drive better than 33 or 31. Better pick up. Fifth gear is useless but drives very nicely.
Amber eagle eyes are nice. Too bad the TJ side marker wiring makes it NOT a plug in. Working on circuit to make it work.
Once it is less rainy I'll grab lighting photos. Then a few day shots and post.
Still to do...
1 rear fender flares
2 rear bumper
3 tire carrier
4 derust and putty/paint
Hope to get this done before we leave.
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Some pics looking of MLC looking a bit rice-burner-blingesque for a jeep.
This is parking lights only. The headlights are not on, just the outer ring of LED are powered.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/04/eby9y6ut.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/04/a7a2uhyg.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/04/a3e5azy7.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/04/e5e7evap.jpg)
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Did not pass inspection this morning due to OBD2 indicating that not all checks are completed post reset. BAH!
MLC likes the 35s though. The i4 with a stock tranny and 4.10s does 55 in fourth at 2100rpm and no real pressure on the accelerator. Didn't have to downshift at all for hill climbs. I think it is actually much better than the 33s for street driving. Not sure a move to 4.56 is a good idea as that would put me back into a "between gears" state. A lower ratio t-case makes more sense. On paper...
Did manage to find some water to drive through. Flares are fixing the windshield and window spray problem. That's a plus.
Rattle can paint is NOT holding up this time. Already need to do significant touch up. I'm thinking that i won't bother, but will just have someone do the whole thing at one time. Knock the rest of the rust off, putty, temp coat to prevent flash, then have it done right. not sure though...
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Glad to hear it's back on the road. But don't forget you don't have to deal with rust really soon. Fix it all then. 4 months in a driveway next to the ocean and my jeep has rusted less than the first salt day in rochester. Do the transfer case. Still my favorite upgrade.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
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I was thinking about that. On one hand I don't need to. On the other, I have lots of exposed rust that will be hard to get to as I finish the next couple of projects. And since I seem to need a better top coat, getting it all at one time might be easier.
But then I do have a move I'm packing for. It's likely I'll be doing a significant amount of the rust work someplace much warmer and sunnier than Roch.
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BAH! CEL came on at the 1/2 tank mark and the engine is clearly not happy. Very rough at 2K and exhaust changed smell. Looks like I need to get over to a code reader and then figure out what parts i need.
And things were going so well ...
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changed smell? My bet is O2 issues
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Yeah. there was an 02 code and an injector code post rest. I just don't understand why it comes on at exactly 1/2 tank on the fuel gauge. Seems that it would show up much earlier. If I keep the tank full the light never comes on and the smell is "normal" (hot oil from engine compartment)
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comes on respective to fuel level for and emissions self test it runs- hot soak, cold start, vapor present in tank....
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boom
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boom
ummm... huh?
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question. answer. boom!
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depending on year, you are allowed to fail a certain amount of emission monitors. Enough of the monitors must be set to pass plug in. if they are not set, it doesn't necessarily cause a CEL. My ZJ has 6 i believe.
you driving around at greater than 1/2 tank just means the jeep has not run the emissions test yet.
id suspect gross evap leak will be the code. check hoses on canister system, gas cap, ect.
unplugging the battery hurts you here as all the monitors are reset and need to re perform the tests and self pass.
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Well, on one hand I don't care. Got my shiny new inspection sticker before she CELd me. But I really dislike the sudden loss of power and rough running (remember the 2k cough post LCA? Worse now).
I'll run it to my local guy tonight and get the codes. Then decide the next step.
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you got to get yourself and ELM327
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Actually I need to get a raspberry pi and get the AVR to forward the codes for automatic lookup and display. But it is all packed up. Local guy is good enough for now...
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You love complication huh? lol
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Why do it simple when you can make it "engineered"?
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O2 high voltage -- unit 2.
This a "novice" job?
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If it comes out, easy. If it doesn't, cut and weld.
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BAH!!
Front passenger wheel seemed to be "dragging" on full lock to the right. Looked under and discovered the tire is making contact with the lower control arm. Driver side has tons of clearance. Looks like adjustable track bar is next on my list.
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dont turn as hard that way
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Great idea. Too bad the idiots at work seem to want to challenge me to practice for Rausch using their Priuses (WTF is the plural for Prius?).
I would have expected a visible offset of the tires to the driver side ...
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If there's no offset of the tires your steering may be off center. Too long. Of a Drag link.
Tapatalking in traffic
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Measure axle to frame relationship. And what sMike said.
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ZJ tierod and solid cover... Not much clearance on hard driver. Passenger is a bit better. (http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/21/ajasequt.jpg)
Tips on how to get that fill plug in before I head to store for giant Allen wrench?
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giant allen wrench
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That's what I thought. That or a bolt with nut stacked. Hmmm
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Wrench acquired. Fluid contained kind of. Test drive and locker is much quieter than before. I know my pinion seal is not much of a seal so I'm wondering if I didn't have enough fluid in the diff. On the other hand, I didn't realize how much higher the full plug is in the solid cover so I slightly over filled the diff this time.
Quieter is nice though...
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Take a 3/8" bolt and lock 2 nuts on the end, use a normal 9/16 ratchet
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O god, ya dont fill to plug lol. D 30license only gets a single quart
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Well that explains my scratching my head when I started the third quart.
Noted for the future. One quart.
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Well, 4 days and the most "built up" jeep I've seen is a TJ rubicon on 33s. Maybe 2" lift. No mall crawlers either. Granted I'm in the "working mans" section of the area so I might just not be seeing them.
What there are an over representation if is over lifted trucks. What good is a 12" lift on a 150 running 33s? There are so many of them that it can't be an accidental "stupid move".
Oh well. Still need to find someone here to head off the pavement with...
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What there are an over representation if is over lifted trucks. What good is a 12" lift on a 150 running 33s? There are so many of them that it can't be an accidental "stupid move".
Welcome to the south! 8) 8) 8)
They are called Brodozers.
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Lol. Great name.
Some hardlinecrawlers folks may be closeish?
Tapatalking in traffic
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Bah! Catastrophic loss of steering fluid at 55mph. Haven't opened the good to investigate. Irrelevant as I can't actually find a "local" <redacted> or <redacted> to buy parts from.
Any way... Mark noticed a leak in my reservoir while we were doing repair. Could be anything though. Other than "buy a different Jeep" what should I look to upgrade while I'm pulling steering stuff apart?
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Probably blew a hose. Shouldn't be an issue finding new. Not a usual failure point so no upgrade needed.
4 cyl reservoirs have always been problematic due to cracking. That might do with an upgrade from PSC or something.
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fill, find leak, fix / replace
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Quadratic has quick shipping.
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Looks like the same area that was "wet" just decided to be "drippy". Seam area in reservoir seems to be the culprit. Likely thinner fluid in hot climate made the inevitable happen sooner. Oh well.
Do I need one from an i4 or are these interchangeable in TJs?
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I4 reservoirs are unique to themselves. :(
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Starter isn't starting. Have plenty of bat. Relays for fuel and starter click. Just doesn't spin the motor. Bypassing the solenoid spins the starter but doesn't actually turn the motor over. Is it worth replacing just the solenoid or just do the whole starter assembly?
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So the starter spins but not engaging?
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Only when shorted. Key does nothing.
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Short from the big lug on the starter (always live) to the little lug (trigger wire from ignition)
If it turns the motor over something else is going on. If it doesn't, replace the starter and you're done.
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What's the magic tool to get the starter off? No idea what those heads are. Nothing in my kit fits.
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http://www.wranglerforum.com/f282/starter-bolt-socket-5650.html
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So it looks like a 12pt 3/8" should get it? Just making sure I read that right.
Mine looks like the T55 torx socket I use for hinge removal. My chiltons manual didn't say what the bolt "should" be.
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from what i read its either or of the 2
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So it looks like a 12pt 3/8" should get it? Just making sure I read that right.
http://www.amazon.com/Lisle-26830-E-12-Torx-Socket/dp/B000P0TZ60/ref=sr_1_9?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1413854146&sr=1-9&keywords=Star+Socket+E12
edit: or buy these - http://www.amazon.com/Anytime-Tools-FEMALE-E-TORX-SOCKET/dp/B000I45Y8Q/ref=sr_1_4?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1413854196&sr=1-4&keywords=Star+Socket+E12
I'm not sure if you have Amazon Prime. if you don't, its well worth looking into the Prime. As you know, the selection of stores around in this area aren't that great so I buy all the stuff on Amazon and get it 2 days later.
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My wife and I both have Prime.
It's worth every penny.
Our UPS guy is like family.
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i use mine, gotta love 2 day shipping
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Only thing I dont like about Amazon is no Paypal, other than that I use it, Just ordered belts this morning because I left a belt at a security checkpoint somewhere...
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I agree ryan.
But to me I feel the reviews of sellers and products are worth more than PayPal.
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paypal is a necessary evil. awful folks, I can't wait for upstarts to get enough buyin to put pressure on them.
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No dice on 3/8 12. Not even close. 10mm fit but only succeeded in making a mess. Looks like I'm buying tools.
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bought sockets. Started on floor of shed where it is getting regular abuse.
Note to other ... morons ...
Do not remove the wiring from the starter AND remove all the bolts without finding some support for the starter. It will fall right out and onto you.
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new starter in. old starter did nit spin on test so it WAS bad...
now not getting power to starter. swapped relay... no power. metered "trigger" at relay... no power on key. Fuses all look good. not going to be a happy day pretty soon....
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Try shorting power over to the solenoid. Hannah's has the same issue. Pretty sure it's just a bad wire between fuse block and solenoid.
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shorted at relay. With key in "on" started right up.
based on continuity and "trickery" i've got it down to something between the key and the harness. Looks like there is a common problem with the switch actuator. I'm just going to add a "push button" start via my intention to hack the dash. I was 90% of the way there so ... easy for me to complete that.
Anyone got a TJ wiring harness (connectors really) that they want to unload?
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Pushbutton to bypass defective ignition done.
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Driving down the road, hit brakes, pedal for to the floor. Get it stopped and find brake fluid all over driver rear. I'm starting to hate brake systems. Drums in particular.
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I think you might be cursed.
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Suddenly my massive purchase of dot5 doesn't seem so insane! Was planning on a complete rebuild in June to switch over.
At least I have all replacement for rear sitting and ready to go on.
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stop using the brakes some much dumb dumb
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Is there no disc conversion available?
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Disc conversion on a Dana Turdyfive? 8.8 is the conversion!
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SMike that's a great idea. I can probably roll over most of the cars here.
Yes there is a disk kit. But it will be attached to an 8.8. Not throwing that kind for $$ at a d35
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Oh, I thought this was the MG.
Yea, sell this jeep and buy a rust free one...... ;)
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To spendy for a "learning" vehicle. All that rust is what the dr ordered for learning to weld sheet.
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No it's not. Welding to rust is torture.
Tapatalking in traffic
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Word
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The idea would be to remove rust then weld. Not looking to make it perfect.
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Well... She's going to a shop. Hard line into cylinder has rusted enough to drip. Enough brakes to stop her for now. Just need to find a shop that will use my parts and do the whole job.
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And the shops here ... bah.
Option now is to replace the line from the splitter to the cylinder, and the cylinder. Can find cylinders but no one seems to have a clue what i need for the hard line. trying to avoid making one as i don't have tools. Any one have a part number I can reference?
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everything on that jeep is 3/16" hard line with 3/8"x24 thread nuts
this is still from the 3/17 failure? lol
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Dont' think I haven't been driving her. She is going on a little drive in a few minutes. But yeah. Fail.
The suggestion is to just break down and get a flare tool or "flex" tube?
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nothing wrong with buying a couple 4' chunks and some unions if you dont want to get into making lines from a 25' roll.
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Get a flare tool and some nicop brake line that you can bend by hand. I've replaced all my lines with it on my XJ and my pickup
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Problem is the only other vehicle that would need it is the MG and it has some freaky non-standard thing. Only non-new-since-I-bought-it lines on MLC are the two on the rear axle. Still may not be a bad idea though.
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Progress up to lunch break.
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/06/7b93c0291858c67b810f42a0cbfb78b4.jpg)
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/06/37cf28642eea4f5a69c7326d5b12b68f.jpg)
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/06/5eb0cc3dd39152dd7712686f296ddf23.jpg)
Much to wingman disappointment it did not go up in flame. BFH was used. Post lunch will be bending hard line and learning how to make flares.
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Not. One. Thing. Completed.
The nuts into the d35 breather/T are NOT standard. And the T is part of the flex line from frame. At this point I've no idea how to get this back together. Anyone know what the exact but is into that T?
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Rust makes things bigger. Pound the socket that’s the next size down from whats sloppy onto it. Coax with hear if needed.
Then buy something less rusty from local once you’re done!
Tapatalking in traffic
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Took four hours to drill out stripped torx and broken bolts, but finally have all the old components removed. On to reassembly tomorrow.
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Ran lines. Reassembled brakes. Twice. Bled but could not get pedal. No air in lines. Checked everything several times. Neighbor stops to chat. I'm looking at MLC and see this.
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/21/ab8116eddbd6d4689fcce9df1a6f740c.jpg)
Mark, bring some matches.
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When you replace one line, replace 'em all!
Tapatalking in traffic
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That's pretty obvious now. Need to get more parts. And decide if I do it the hard way or just connect multiple premise sections.
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Easy way, sell rust, buy southern.
Tapatalking in traffic
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Annnnnnnd done.
From MC to lugs everything is brand new. All lines replaced with poly armor 3/16. Rear has new drums, shoes, hardware, cylinders (from Arie last year), and flex hose/T. Fronts have new hoses, calipers, rotors, pads. Thanks to the many "do overs" on making flares I have my total cost at $316. Next time It won't take me a month since
1. Anti sieze
2. Just buy it all and return what I don't use.
3. Anti sieze
4. No winter down here (I win)
5. Anti sieze
next project.... repainting the front end ... again ... thanks to dot3 and not paying attention.
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Still not painted but at least she starts now.
https://vimeo.com/142945457 (https://vimeo.com/142945457)
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Push button going all racer I like it.
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(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13939299_825284620906391_6048710364575774146_n.jpg?oh=ffd0b7c4eff00a282293dd821f9867c0&oe=585E2C1E)
And she's gone. New owner already has an 8.8 to replace the d35. I think the dog is more upset than I am.
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13876414_825346587566861_4067841801546275386_n.jpg?oh=b5e9ef5d63e8f755c72a43051899147d&oe=58552964)
Now all the focus is on the MG engine clean up.