'02 TJ with i4 -- Mid Life Crisis

[jaysenodell]

I set mine close to zero.

Aren't you the guy who thinks alignments are "optional"?


I'm not sure I want them listening to you...

[Wingman]

Not me.  I do mine in the garage with a couple of 4' levels clamped to the rotors.

[M4wdFab]

Not me.  I do mine in the garage with a couple of 4' levels clamped to the rotors.

thats how i do the buggies that dont change toe when on the lift.

working on the ground is so annoying to me now lol


ill give it a half turn out or so today after work and see if it changes.  its got to be that.

[mr.mindless]

wrong toe will make it darty. out feels unstable darty, in feels like fast turn in and eager darty.

[M4wdFab]

darty pulling is one thing

but this guy will s on its on back and fourth with wheel held firm no play in wheel. 

[mr.mindless]

that sounds like a DW precursor.

play in box or pitman? I'm sure you checked bolts.

[jaysenodell]

that sounds like a DW precursor.

Grrr.... Don't even suggest that.

[M4wdFab]

ya i checked the box and pitman arm.

its got a couple torn TRE boots but they are all tight as far i can tell. 

[mr.mindless]

that sounds like a DW precursor.

Grrr.... Don't even suggest that.

that's exactly the mechanics behind DW: slop in the steering system allows the effective steering angle at the tires to oscillate. That wander can build on itself when there is enough slop and viola! DW. A steering stabilizer masks that by dampening movement, therefore keeping it from wandering on its own and building up to death wobble.

I really hope that a little toe adjustment takes care of this one.

[M4wdFab]

i thought for sure a hot passenger rotor and sticker sliders were going to fix it.  the extra work and back on the lift did no change. 


i do hear a small click in the steering shaft, but all movement seems to move tires. 

[dubt]

I set mine close to zero.

  this

[jaysenodell]

MLC is back.

A 30mi drive later and I think the front is toed out. It only seemed to wander on straights where I felt the need to give small corrections. If I took my hands off the wheel no wandering. When I did correct it took a bit to get a response then it over corrected which resulted in me overcorrecting the other way and then back to the top. It was very stable with any amount of constant turn radius or camber to the road. Basically if I needed to hold the wheel to one side or the other to keep on track it seemed stable. MLC also wants to push (understeer?) a bit more. It is very noticeable at low speed. It is more than "stop being lead foot" as it is noticeable with the clutch in. A very light brake and things start to move in the right direction.


Other than that, MLC drives better than ever. There has always been some shakiness as evidenced by the phone mount vibration. At 55 there was no movement of the phone at all (over 55 I was too busy going in a straight line to look at the phone). I didn't tell mike about the "passenger dive" under hard braking but that is now gone. I'm assuming that was the passenger caliper. There seems to be less noise too. None of the "clunk" I've been used to feeling.


Now I need to do is get the alignment shop to "do the right thing" and redo the alignment they never should have done in the first place.

[jaysenodell]

Mike, you don't want to read this...


Starts to oscillate between 54 - 58 (GPS measured) with mild DW symptoms. Small bumps set it off more dramatically at the front of the range. Motion seems more up and down with only a bit of steering feedback. It is speed related (tride 3, 4, and 5 gears) but doesn't seem to be balance as it stops abruptly at 58.


Steering is the same as last night. Had long stretches of 55+ down 104 with no issues as long as I avoided fast adjustments.


Ideas?

[mr.mindless]

I just remembered that this has a small lift in it with a stock trackbar. That will give some amount of bump steer.

If there's poor bounce control that could turn into some oscillation by itself, and that's sounding a little bit more like symptoms of bad shocks, worn bushings, and the bad swaybar stuff that was mentioned.

[M4wdFab]

We decided here it needs to be aligned and the toe reduced back close to zero.  Thats step 1.  i could not get the tie rod to budge with PB or heat last night before you picked it up.  That needs to be broken free / broken off, and replaced.  If it were me, i would replace all the TRE that have torn boots and then do the V8 swap tie rod before you take it back to an alignment shop. 

Check for slop in any steering shaft connections.

Next i would swap to a different set of tires / or have those tires re-balanced.

Next i would go after the slop in the sway bar connections.

Next i would replace all the control arms in the front, starting with the passenger upper that had 1/10! of what i would consider unacceptable play.


at mike:
it has an aftermarket adjustable front swaybar.  shocks feel good to me, arm bushings feel fine, his sway bar discos are a little egged out and have some play- meh