Author Topic: 572  (Read 191656 times)

matt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 608
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 572
« Reply #810 on: December 11, 2013, 01:43:00 PM »
Next weak link.  R&P

M4wdFab

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 22490
  • Karma: +11/-22
Re: 572
« Reply #811 on: December 11, 2013, 01:44:03 PM »
4 wheel steer full 300M RCV'd 47 spline rocks with 53 Mickys, ya.   later.  still into racing for now. 

M4wdFab

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 22490
  • Karma: +11/-22
Re: 572
« Reply #812 on: December 11, 2013, 01:45:30 PM »
Next weak link.  R&P


we talked about this, and dont forget- i running a 60 R&P on the coast side backwards.  good thing though if that blows, ill just cut out the center and put a 14 section in with all the same parts

Harrison

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2104
  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: 572
« Reply #813 on: December 11, 2013, 02:17:26 PM »
Next weak link.  R&P


we talked about this, and dont forget- i running a 60 R&P on the coast side backwards.  good thing though if that blows, ill just cut out the center and put a 14 section in with all the same parts

14b has the same weakness, no? Or just not worried about strength of that monster

jaysenodell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1311
  • Karma: +0/-1
Re: 572
« Reply #814 on: December 11, 2013, 02:21:31 PM »
just looked up what 'rockwells' were. I think I'm most intrigued by the pinion mounted disc brake options. I'm looking at that and thinking "how much simpler could it be?" I'm assuming there is only a solid shaft in the axle tube for that to work. Or could you use an open/auto/lsd and still use pinion braking?


Granted 572 would never use anything but straight welded axle anyway...
Mid Life Crisis in the making -- '02 TJ i4 manual, Aussie Locker magic pulling from the front

rejeep

  • M4wd Vendor
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6188
  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: 572
« Reply #815 on: December 11, 2013, 02:26:18 PM »
pinion disk brakes are primarily used as a parking brake..
they are available for 231’s D300’s, Atlas etc…


I would think.. if you use a pinion brake at any type of speed the DS is spinning a hell of a lot faster than the wheels with less mechanical advantage...

shits gona brake (get it)
I never wanted a red car.. always thought they were tacky and common...
I now have 4 very not common cars and they are all red.. :o

jaysenodell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1311
  • Karma: +0/-1
Re: 572
« Reply #816 on: December 11, 2013, 02:31:47 PM »
shits gona brake (get it)
Ha!


That parking brake makes more sense than driving brake. I would also expect they require some type of balancing too.


I'm thinking 573 (should she ever exist) should be built on rockwells. Then we could start a pool on how long it takes Mike to need new shafts.


2" diameter shafts... I think it would take him a bit longer with those.
Mid Life Crisis in the making -- '02 TJ i4 manual, Aussie Locker magic pulling from the front

cracker

  • Free Loader
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1786
  • Karma: +3/-2
Re: 572
« Reply #817 on: December 11, 2013, 02:34:26 PM »
monster trucks use pinion brakes..

Harrison

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2104
  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: 572
« Reply #818 on: December 11, 2013, 02:59:34 PM »
Rockwell pinion brakes are mounted on the 3rd member, so driveshaft strength would not be a concern

etk300ex

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6010
  • Karma: +3/-3
Re: 572
« Reply #819 on: December 11, 2013, 03:03:10 PM »
A lot of rockwell guys use strictly pinion brake.  They are a lot more heavy duty than those designed for a parking brake.  But yes they are much less functional at speed.

rejeep

  • M4wd Vendor
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6188
  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: 572
« Reply #820 on: December 11, 2013, 03:12:29 PM »
http://www.rockwellrebuildmanual.com/pinion-brake-or-wheel-brakes-for-your-toploader-rockwell-axle/

yup...

and double yup....  wouldn’t not want them on a street or race rig....

all I’m picturing is 65 mph and a panic stop…
driveshaft lock up....  crunching and snapping to follow...
I never wanted a red car.. always thought they were tacky and common...
I now have 4 very not common cars and they are all red.. :o

M4wdFab

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 22490
  • Karma: +11/-22
Re: 572
« Reply #821 on: December 11, 2013, 03:17:04 PM »
Umm mechanical  engineer disagrees.  I get 5.38 revolutions now of pad on rotor to stop 1 rotation of a tire?  The mechanical advantage is the other way.   What do larger rotors do... more linear feet of dragging per* wheel rev.   ( pressures and surface area considered)


Didn't read link you posted arie yet
« Last Edit: December 11, 2013, 03:24:04 PM by M4wdFab »

M4wdFab

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 22490
  • Karma: +11/-22
Re: 572
« Reply #822 on: December 11, 2013, 03:23:12 PM »
http://www.rockwellrebuildmanual.com/pinion-brake-or-wheel-brakes-for-your-toploader-rockwell-axle/

yup...

and double yup....  wouldn’t not want them on a street or race rig....

all I’m picturing is 65 mph and a panic stop…
driveshaft lock up....  crunching and snapping to follow...


no useful information there.

also.... what is this drive shaft speak?  its a pinion brake, not a transfer case output brake people... no load on shafts unless your doing a brake stand





« Last Edit: December 11, 2013, 03:51:20 PM by M4wdFab »

jaysenodell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1311
  • Karma: +0/-1
Re: 572
« Reply #823 on: December 11, 2013, 03:23:48 PM »
all I’m picturing is 65 mph and a panic stop…
driveshaft lock up....  crunching and snapping to follow...
Automatic trans?
Mid Life Crisis in the making -- '02 TJ i4 manual, Aussie Locker magic pulling from the front

M4wdFab

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 22490
  • Karma: +11/-22
Re: 572
« Reply #824 on: December 11, 2013, 03:47:49 PM »
straight from the pirate-  you guys read and maybe will clear up some things.. read it more than once.  i think the conclusions are a little bias based on poorly designed OEM systems, but the physics don't lie, pinion brakes can and will create more braking when used properly.



OK, so, moving rig has kinetic energy, kinetic energy must be turned into heat, rotors must absorb said heat. Big deal, so what?

Well, the equations that follow are used to calculate the temperature increase in the rotor for a given kinetic energy.  Remembering that kinetic energy depends on weight and speed, they also explain in incontrovertible terms (big word – means you can’t bloody argue with me about it!) exactly why “pinion brakes”, flat out suck, and why Patooyee’s rotors keep trying to melt off ! Remember – to add insult to injury “pinion brakes” are often used on Rockwell-axled rigs – which are big and heavy, and weight is a multiplying factor in the equation for Kinetic energy.

[As an aside – the previous discussion on brake torque also explains why some feel that pinion brakes work well “at slow speed”. It’s because the rotor is placed before the axle differential, meaning the pinion brake’s brake torque is calculated as above and then multiplied by a factor equal to the axle ratio.  This means, even with small callipers and rotors, they can develop tremendous brake torque. But – remember what we said about the requirements of a braking system – it must also have sufficient thermal capacity – and they simply do not. In fact, they’re dangerously inadequate in this regard!]