M4wd&Fabrications
Projects place => Projects Section => Topic started by: jaysenodell on November 02, 2014, 11:42:55 AM
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Decided I might as well chronicle MadGe too...
History of what I've done since pickup from Paul.
As planned, had a guy do the front end work that was "in progress". Dampers, full bushing, bolt, and swaybar mounts replaced. Tires, front brake hard lines. Plugs, wires, dist cap. All from parts Paul provided (less the concentric bolt kit needed for the control arm rebuild).
On the way from Roch to St Helena Is., the MC let go (Cumberland MD). Did a replacement in an Advance Auto parking lot. Had to manufacture mounting stuff and some replacement brake line. Around Roanoke VA the engine started to act starved for fuel. Suspected vapor lock due to long durations of high speed driving. Continued to occur with periods of excellent driving until she refused to start in middle-of-nowhere SC. While waiting on tow noticed that the electronic ig was shorting. Fixed that to get home but didn't run right.
After a few days of tinkering did some diag and narrowed it down to spark problems. Called some specialists and they unanimously indicated that the culprit was likely me frying the electronic ignition module. Research suggested that the "stock" ignition modules were no good (no one manufactures a Lucas direct replacement) and most electronic manufactures suggested points for the 1500cc in MadGe. So a 25d was spec'd and purchased.
25d installed and static timed to 8°btdc she fired right up. Did some guestimate timing based on the instructions from the distributor supplier and she was very peppy. Loaded up son for test drive only to discover there were 0 breaks as I attempted a turn. Thankfully there was a long sand area between the bail out for the corner and the water.
Got back to house to find large pool of break fluid where the rear driver wheel had been. "Interrogated" son to find that he had mashed the brakes. In researching how to fix ran into the now infomous "dot3 vs dot5 debacle. As of this morning have dot3 out of system and dot5 in it (but out of dot5 to "finish" the bleed tomorrow).
As of November 2, 2014, that's where she is. Next actions are going to be
1. finish with brake flush/bleed
2. rebuild rear brake cylinders and then flush/bleed again.
3. clean up some electrical stuff
4. fix windshield sprayer (if not fixed in #3)
Interspersed in there will be "take wife to beach".
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So after all the fun so far... Are you happy with it still?
Sounds like you bought an old JEEP. LOL
Beach sounds good right now. Cold here!
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All I can say is that the MG is a blast when it works. Driving through VA was amazing. The few drives I took here were loads of fun. She's the anti-MLC. Quick. Responsive. Good on fuel.
Just hope she stays running for a while.
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Yeah. Still happy. Just put 50 mi on. Does 70 smooth. Gets Around corners amazingly. Just enough engine to be peppy but not enough to cost me my license.
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MadGe was a prop in a photo shoot. The "old paint" was perfect. The wear points just added character.
The fun started post shoot. Noticed there were no brake lights as the son parked her. A bit of "wingman" support helped diagnose the break light switch as the problem. Fine. Wife drover her car so drive home wasn't too worrisome. As we started to leave the parking lot asked son to adjust pass side mirror. After second of silence he handed me the mirror.
Looks like my weekends are filling up fast. A real garage with lights would be real nice now that the days are so short.
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Brake light switch and new rear brake cylinders+shoes installed. Did 200mi going through Savannah and other local towns trying to find a mall for the ladies.
Based on fuel gauge it looks like 4 gallons of gas. Only engine work has been putting in a points based 25d and setting timing to 14btdc. I'm not being nice to her with extended 3.5-4krpm sections of highway. I am running ethanol free "marine" gas.
Only problem I'm having now is the standard short stop "vapor lock" due to crapy exhaust placement (design). No signs of overheating but it's cool down here right now. Need to check that as things warm up.
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Not much but..
Mirror "rebuilt" with the salvaged parts that came off.
(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/15/6b7feece72587b6fbf65edac4ffbdd26.jpg)
(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/15/68a39580666742e56792bf5ca2acbc5b.jpg)
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Four runs to Savannah this week. Not a single issue. Set timing to 18btdc to get a bit more bang. Very snappy at all RPM but a bit doggy under 1500. Runs 70mph way too easy. With the advanced timing and a tad rich (still trying to fix that) with LOTS of thin pedal I'm getting 32-38mpg. Not too bad.
Next on the list is routine maintenance. Next big thing is an oil cooler to help summer cooling.
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Awesome!
Tapatalking in traffic
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And proof that MadGe is my daily driver (for the little driving I do)
(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/02/5f60c09ef9dd53c27f4544bdf5b9c4a3.jpg)
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Ha! Over gvwr?
Tapatalking in traffic
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Probably. It's amazing how much smaller that car is once you're actually standing next to it.
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haha, i can agree with that!
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For all the "WTF did they do it this way" I've run into on MadGe, I think they (and by they the folks who designed the Triumph 1500cc engine) got the oil system right. Oil drain plug is lowest point in engine when car is level. Oil filter is dry if the engine has been idle for an hour. Filter is easily replaced with nothing in the way than the easily removed air supply duct (you have to take it off for everything). Hardest part has been finding oil. 15w-50 is ... not easy to find.
Arie, you have any relation with Auto Zone?
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said no one ever!
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15w-50 is ... not easy to find.
Arie, you have any relation with Auto Zone?
mobil 1
and no.. they are the devil
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Mobile is what I was looking for. Auto zone was the only one with local stock. Any non-devil folks you'd recommend? O'riely, advance and Napa are the big ones. There is supposed to be a car quest but I can't find it.
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Apparently Madge has decided that reverse is no longer supported. Feels like the stick is stuck on the gate. Hoping it is just the outer/inner tube being disconnected. That's not to bad to fix. Other common cause involves opening trans and finding little pieces all over. Which doesn't seem bad unless the little pieces used to be big pieces. Symptoms point to big pieces all being intact.
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Shift gate issue was my last similar happening. Fixed it through the speedo gear hole.
Tapatalking in traffic
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Reading through some online stuff I recalled pushing Madge with engine off but in first gear. Seems that makes a mess of some kind for rev. Put back in first and rolled opposite direction. Rev is now available.
One win for me.
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#durability
Tapatalking in traffic
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40 yr old car. It can have a few quirks.
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need some help from ... the old UK car guys. I think that means Arie.
Here's the riddle.
MadGe starts up fine. Runs all day till you shut her off hot. Will start right back up but will then stall about 1-10 minutes into running. Just dies off. Like she's out of gas. When attempting to refire will cough like trying to start but no go. If I wait till she is cold I can start her right up and drive all day again. Last night that took about 90mins in the heat down here.
My thoughts are about fuel flow and boiling fuel before the carb. And one have a better diagnostic than "put in an electric fuel pump"?
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did the oil run out in the carb for the bowl rod thing?
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Dash pot... Got to check that... thanks for that reminder.
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check all grounds.. always the first thing with British and any old shit..
vapor lock is real... how is your fuel line routed?
bad coil will be my guess... but don't just throw parts at it...
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coil is new in Jan. pretty sure that's not the problem
fuel line in this mess is a mess. everything runs over the exhaust manifold. I've been suspecting vapor lock but can't really figure out how to check for that.
one thing i did find was that my coolant was way low. I normally only check the overflow which never changes. I finally popped the top off the steel reservoir this afternoon to prep for a flush and it was less than quarter full. the overflow is 100% full so I clearly have a problem with feeding back into the system from overflow. I did change the oil ... 4 weeks ago... nice and black. New oil is still clear.
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new does not mean good
especially with electrical... coils can get heat soaked and fail prematurely...
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vapor lock is my bet. electric fuel pump before the engine compartment would probably fix that unless it's real bad. I'm assuming block-mounted mechanical pump, so there's fuel line under vacuum in the engine compartment?
Could try some heat wrap on both sides of the equasion but that's really what it sounds like from here.
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Paul, there's a fuel pump in a box that came with Madge. Looks "used" but newer than what's on the engine. Did you change the pump?
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don't think so
i'm pretty sure i'd remember that
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it got a new fuel pump shortly before it was sold to Paul- that was determined to be the fix for the random vapor lock and not run condition that seems to have re surfaced.
Previous owner is on vacation for 2 weeks right now
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Looks like I need to look for a leaky diaphragm then. Pin holes in the D seem to exasperate the vapor lock. Buy a rebuild kit for the spare and keep one on hand. Would be able to replace "on the street" pretty simply if required.
Seems like the fuel pumps are very very unhappy with eth fuel even with additives. I may have killed this running e10 (with additives) on the trip down and a few fill ups here. I think I'm at the point where I need to make the decision between "classic car" and a "resto-mod". There are few with all stock Midgets here so MadGe is a bit unique. But keeping it running... electric fuel pump and a higher thermal capacity in cooling may be what is needed to make her a reliable driver.
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Or head down to the boat docks and stick with the E-0 to fix half the issue?
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She only gets e0 now. It's cheaper than running the additives. And it is available everywhere. The SC e10 was done when in GA and coasting on fumes (and once by daughter, but she remembered "add the stuff" so I'm not going to fault her for one tank).
Makes me wonder if I should buy/rebuild the carb too. those are the major haters of the e10 fuel.
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Paul/sMike, any idea on last carb rebuild? Dash pot seems to have sludge. Lifting the "piston" in the carb per service manual and I get lots of soot. I don't think the carb should have soot.
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that's from backfires...
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no idea. can ask Mark when he gets back
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I'm not sure I shouldn't "just do it" anyway. If I did lose the fuel pump to eth then the damper diaphragm isn't far behind. Maybe I should "give up" on keeping it orig and get a eth tolerant hif or su and move to electric fuel pump.
Arie, this isn't a show car. How much do you try to keep things "original" in your toys? Seems the CJ is pretty modified but the LR is fairly stock.
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The CJ is modified, but generally period correct modifications.. (within reason)
the Land Rover is stock with the exception of some little dodads here and there...
carb, petronix, alternator, disk brakes, overdrive.. basically things to make it a better driver.. it can be returned to stock in a weekend.. the design worked for 67 years.. who am I to change it..
all depends on what your doing with the car and who you want to ever turn a wrench on it.
Car value is usually determined by being as close to factory condition...
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not so much concerned about value or "show" stuff. Car will be our kick around for going places. Reliability is up there.
Which kind of says that the electric fuel pump is the right direction to go.
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not so much concerned about value or "show" stuff. Car will be our kick around for going places. Reliability is up there.
Which kind of says that the electric fuel pump is the right direction to go.
you answered your own question, then. reliable carb and fuel pump. Done.
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weber car kit... DONE
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Weber has some difficulties on the 1500 used in the midget. very fussy. Most folks favor HIF/HS6 or dual HS4s pulling intakes from the actual triumph. They require less tuning and sync much easier.
I'll likely look of for the HS6 as that has some more common sources than the HIF and HS here.
Not that I've looked into it at all....
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LS1 engine shoehorned in the hood, DONE! :-X
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The sweet convert it the winkle from an rx7. Only have to move one engine mount. Other popular are small block v6 and motorcycle with tubo. Get much over 250hp and the car needs structural reinforcement.
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MadGe has had some issues with the summer temps down here. But I think it may be worked out. Basically once the temp was over 85, she would show all the signs of vapor lock and leave me sitting on the side of the road for a couple hours.
Pulled plugs... wrong ones for a points ignition. And the gap was 0.125+. New plugs gapped at the service spec of 0.020.
Checked entire ignition and coil, wires, condenser all tested ok. Reset timing to a "less aggressive 14°btdc.
Did coolant flush. Oil change. Filters.
Followed the set up instructions for the ZS 150CD carb. That thing needs to be rebuilt. Wound up pulling about 1/2 turn out of mixture, resetting the idle (seemed like 40 times during the process) and basically changing the "throttle response" via the damper settings. I think this and the plugs were the real solution since you could smell the difference as I went through the set up process.
Put about 150 miles on her in 90+°F temps over the weekend. Never seemed to miss or skip. No more "gas" smell at stop lights. is a little more responsive to the throttle. Idiot gauge showed the temp being much lower and that there was more variance to temp when driving. Also saw reduction in temp as driving for the first time.
Upcoming trips to Savanna are much less of a concern for me now.
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Awesome!! Well done
Tapatalking in traffic
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good job and good to hear
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good job and good to hear
I "think" the move to points is what messed her up. The RN12YC that were in there were exactly what was called for with the pertronix ignition. Between the added resistance and the large gap the "guess" is that there was incomplete combustion. That led to burn off in the exhaust mani which pushed under hood temps to "HELL HAS AC!" levels. That likely led to boiling fuel. Add a slightly rich mix and the gassy exhaust made a lot of sense.
I gave her an extended run (8mi) at 70mph and the temp needle climbed to the right of N. Unlike the last couple months, with a mile of 55mph temp dropped right back to left of N.
Only thing that I "have to do" is get a spare. But at this point I'm never outside AA tow radius to I may just reclaim the trunk space. I should deal with the valve cover seep, but it isn't burning oil under the hood nor is she ever close to "add oil" (one quart TOTAL added since I've gotten her here) so I'll likely ignore that for now. Everything else is just cosmetic.
Mrs loves driving around in the evenings. We are about to push the ODO over 40k. As far as she's concerned MadGe was the right "3rd car". That is as close to a win as I will ever get.
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Mrs wanted to take Madge to Savannah. 70-80mph for an hour and the temp was right where it should have been. Seeing oil pressure running a tad low after long runs of high temp, but recovers quickly with a bit of low rpm driving.
Already been stopped twice in Savannah today by folks wanting to know where to get repairs done. Apparently I need too move closer and become a shade tree wrench. Nope. That's too much like work.
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Awesome that the MG is up to that now!
Tapatalking in traffic
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I need days like this more often.
Ignition warning light in Madge goes on. I diagnose "bad rectifier". I call for parts. Find one far far away. I go look in "Paul's gifts to Madge" pile and find ...
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/30/34743b66a0aa67b17fdf22510749d8f1.jpg)
Yep. Still has factory test tags. Thanks Paul!
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more like guy i got if from's gifts..
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I'm still giving you credit with the mrs.
Either way, fixed with $0 out of my pocket. And I didn't have to drive three hours. Win win.
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awesome :)
also glad you guys are really enjoying it
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*sigh*
Looks like MadGe is trying to make be work.
Trip to savannah two weeks ago there was a the alternator issue and an odd drop in oil pressure. Drove MadGe back to Sav for a work trip. On both trips the oil pressure thing was pretty obvious. All symptoms point to rod bearings. She's about 20K early.
As I was looking through the service manuals there's an awful lot of thumbprints around the sections detailing lower end rebuild. I'm wondering if she's been a problem child in the past. 1500s are well known as bearing eaters so ... it is what it is.
sMike/Paul, either of you know of any bottom end work being done in her past?
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i don't remember anything about that, hopefully smike can ask
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Seems like thats not the proper application of “thicker oil and run ’er till she blowsâ€
Tapatalking in traffic
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Having a hard time finding 1500 from triumph or MG. that kind of discourages the "till she blows" part.
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I’d think that would be anyway great swap for my minitruck. So if you find 2... :)
Tapatalking in traffic
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no problems no work done.
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Well then... It looks like it's right on schedule. I'm not in a place to do a full rebuild (no shop built yet) so I'll just do the rod bearings knowing that I'll be pulling the engine for a full "fix it all" in 20k.
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It's been a while. I finally loosened the purse strings and bought a built 1500 for Madge. '76 block, decked head and flat topped pistons plus ground cam. Puts compression at 9.3. with the hardened seals it sets me up to run 93e10 fuel. Since we are pulling the motor and tranny she gets electric fuel pump (blanking plate on block), clutch, flywheel surfaced, carb rebuilt, new water pump and fan clutch. Still debating on oil cooler. Will be putting in headlight relays to improve brightness with standard bulbs.
Found a classic car guy to do the work inexpensively. He loves he car. "Every bolt comes out easy. Man I wish all the 40yr old cars were this nice." Also likes that she's not a trailer queen.
Issues we've found so far.
* every mount was bad. Have trans mounts. Need engine. On order.
* new engine did not come with plugged exhaust air injection. Looking for proper bolts.
* no carb pro local (last guy died a week ago). Debating sending out vs full gasket kit.
* he seems to love my car! Sure hope he gives her back.
Engine should be completely out tonight and if auto zone lives up to promise new engine in tomorrow. Need to find e10 friendly carb kit. No luck so far. Arie?
I now have a 1500 to rebuild at my leisure.